well today i decided to change out my front brake pads because my car wasnt stopping very well.

when i took the wheel off i noticed something odd, my pads were still touching the rotors. So i took the pads off and replace them.

I already have a problem with my pedal sinking to the floor but i believe that is the MC.

so i take the car for a drive and as im driving i hear a monotoned squeal...not like brakes that squeal when you push them, but more of something caused by brakes dragging. So im guessing my brakes are dragging <---duh

could a bad MC cause the brakes to drag like that?

also, that stop squeak stuff that comes with the pads...do i put that directly on the surface of the pads or somewhere else? (first time ever changing brake pads, so i dont know)

 

also, when i tap the brake it goes away briefly then comes back seconds later, and when i hit bumps in the road it goes away and comes back seconds later

 

Take a look at the rear dust shield behind the rotor, you may have inadvertantly distorted it when you retracted the pads. It could be rubbing against the rotor.

A second thing you might want to consider is the application of some Disc Brake Quiet on the back of the brake pads.



P

 

the pads came with some quiet stuff, i just dont know where to put it... but i will definately check out hat dust shield


stilll thinking about changing teh MC, my brakes are sinking to the floor and are slow to come back up


so i put the quiet solution on the back of the pads?

 

If you're finding that 'sinking feeling' at stoplights, while your pedal goes to the floor; you are MOST DEFINITELY in need of a Brake Master Cylinder.

You have to do three related things very soon.
Replace your Brake Master Cylinder, have the Rear Wheel Cylinders inspected and have the Brake Fluid Power Flushed.

You have fallen victim to the consiquences of not having had the brake fluid flushed (changed) periodically. What has happened (if you care to know) is that the Brake Fluid (being alcohol based) absords water over the course of time. When it reaches a point of Super Saturation, the water falls out of suspension and starts to puddle in the bottom of every component in the Brake System. Where, over the course of time, it corrodes everything it touches.
In your case, the first component to fail is your Master Cylinder. The water in the brake fluid has corroded the bore of the cylinder until it reached a point where the cylinder piston seals can no longer seal against the body. Rather than generating and holding pressure, the fluid is leaking past the seal, and the pedal slowly drops to the floor.

P

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you're finding that 'sinking feeling' at stoplights, while your pedal goes to the floor; you are MOST DEFINITELY in need of a Brake Master Cylinder.

You have to do three related things very soon.
Replace your Brake Master Cylinder, have the Rear Wheel Cylinders inspected and have the Brake Fluid Power Flushed.

You have fallen victim to the consiquences of not having had the brake fluid flushed (changed) periodically. What has happened (if you care to know) is that the Brake Fluid (being alcohol based) absords water over the course of time. When it reaches a point of Super Saturation, the water falls out of suspension and starts to puddle in the bottom of every component in the Brake System. Where, over the course of time, it corrodes everything it touches.
In your case, the first component to fail is your Master Cylinder. The water in the brake fluid has corroded the bore of the cylinder until it reached a point where the cylinder piston seals can no longer seal against the body. Rather than generating and holding pressure, the fluid is leaking past the seal, and the pedal slowly drops to the floor.

P</TD></TR></TABLE>


man!!! stupid old bag who had the car before me didnt check anything

 

Don't feel bad, I would get bit myself on used car purchases from time to time. (it happens to us all).
If you power flush the brake system and get all that crap out of there, it will stop the process; but I'd put an eyeball to the rear cylinders sometime along the way. Look for dampness/fluid under the cylinder's end dust seals. There should be none.

P

 

If you have two shims for each pad, I think the anti-sqeaL goes between the pad and shim, and between the shims. It will make the shims stick to the back of the pad, but still slide around. The pads should have come with directions for this. Are they Honda pads?

 

not honda OEM pads, and no instructions at all

bendix

 

i will put that anti squeal between the shims and pads tomorrow, but i have another question.

the bolts that were on the back of the calipers (1 top and one bottom) do those have to go back in the correct order? i just laid them aside and then put them back in but dont think i got them all in the same place they came off.

i read on a google search that it actually matters.

 

If you're refering to bolts #21, No - Honda calls for 4 per vehicle (two per side) so they are universal in position.
If you're talking about Bolts (Sliders) #16 and #17, Maybe - Honda specifies the short threaded #17 on top. I believe they are of differernt thread and pitch, so you can't swap them - but you might want to check them just the same. They are also supposed to be lubricated before installation.

http://www.hondaautomotivepart...NO%29



P

 

well it is number 16 and 17 im talking about....i hope i didnt skrew anything up

 

ok i went out and bought a new MC.

i followed the instructions for installation that were included.

first step was Bench bleeding the MC off the car, the instructions said that i should push the rod in 1 inch at a time and pressure should build up there and i should only be able to push it in about 1/8 inch and no bubbles.

well, there were no bubbles, but it never gained that pressure.

so i installed it on the car, followed all bleeding instructions, bled the system for 2 hours straight and never gained pressure back to the pedal.

the pedal no longer sinks to the floor like it did before, but the thing has no pressure, it will build to a certain point and not build anymore.

Test run was crappy, the car will stop, but the pedal only works after going past half way.

i duno what im doing wrong and i need a real fast reply if possible


(there are no leaks anywhere, followed bleeding instructions per helms manual)

 

my brakes squeak because they are aggressive pads on nice rotors. one thing you might take into consideration, is that you may not have bedded them correctly and becuase of that, they could have a glaze on them, thus making them loud.

 

i fixed the squeaking and rubbing sound

thanks tho

however i have that other question above that i feel is more important now.

 

If you used the old method of two people (one pumping brake pedal, and one loosening and tightening bleed bolt) you have to have two people who know what they are doing. If you use a vacumm pump, all you need is one. Do a search. Accordselux had a good method for bleeding brakes with pics. Good luck

 

Old two person method:
guy #1 - Pump brake pedal, then hold down
guy #2 - loosen bleed bolt (pedal will sink to floor and fluid will squirt out) do not release the brake pedal until bleed bolt is re-tightened. If the brake pedal is released before the bleed bolt is tightened, air will be sucked into the system.

Repeat until nothing but clean fluid (with no bubbles) comes out. do this for all four wheels.

PS: Have a fresh (un-opened) can of brake fluid on hand, and make sure the master cylinder doesn't run out of fluid.

 

that is exactly how i was doing it

so i dunno whats up...im going to honda tomorrow to ask them, but i guess ill just bleed till i run out of blood tomorow

 

Try bleeding the master cylinder while mounted.
Two person procedure (it ALWAYS IS ).
First operates the pedal
Second operates the Flare Nut Wrench.

First - presses down on pedal
Second - cracks pipe loose @ Master Cylinder
First - allows pedal to go to floor (and holds it there)
Second - tightens pipe @ Master Cylinder
First - allows pedal to return to relaxed position
Second - checks fluid level in reservoir

Repeat procedure

After 3 cycles, check your work. The pedal should have responded to your efforts
You should not have to re-bleed the system again. The Master Cylinder is at the systems highest point so you shouldn't have lost anything.

P

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try bleeding the master cylinder while mounted.
Two person procedure (it ALWAYS IS ).
First operates the pedal
Second operates the Flare Nut Wrench.

First - presses down on pedal
Second - cracks pipe loose @ Master Cylinder
First - allows pedal to go to floor (and holds it there)
Second - tightens pipe @ Master Cylinder
First - allows pedal to return to relaxed position
Second - checks fluid level in reservoir

Repeat procedure

After 3 cycles, check your work. The pedal should have responded to your efforts
You should not have to re-bleed the system again. The Master Cylinder is at the systems highest point so you shouldn't have lost anything.

P</TD></TR></TABLE>


shall try it tomorrow

do i bleed through the pices where the brake lines hookup to the MC like when i was bench bleeding it? or elsewhere?


Modified by 93cb7sedan at 12:44 PM 3/23/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by P_Adams &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


P</TD></TR></TABLE>

referring to this picture, i found out today that the 16 and 17 are different , the threads are the same length and all (from what i could see), but one bolt is longer than the other (total length, not thread size/length)

right now i have the bolts as follows, Longer one on top, shorter one on bottom.

is that correct?

 

bump for my last two questions

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93cb7sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">referring to this picture, i found out today that the 16 and 17 are different , the threads are the same length and all (from what i could see), but one bolt is longer than the other (total length, not thread size/length)

right now i have the bolts as follows, Longer one on top, shorter one on bottom.

is that correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93cb7sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

do i bleed through the pices where the brake lines hookup to the MC like when i was bench bleeding it? or elsewhere?</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

If you had the long bolt where the short bolt goes, it would probably be sticking out (have a gap between the bolt flange and the callilper). So I think you have them in the right place. Yes, I'm pretty sure P said to bleed the MC where the (spiral lines) connect to the MC. Have fun, and good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93cb7sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
do i bleed through the pices where the brake lines hookup to the MC like when i was bench bleeding it? or elsewhere?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, you loosen the flare nut where the brake pipes attach to the Master Cylinder. It will be abundantly apparent that you're purging air, it will start spitting as the fluid comes out.

A Caution: Cover any place painted that you want to remain that way (Brake Fluid makes a great paint remover).

P

 

well, ive bled the brakes enough, it just wont keep any pressure at all. with car off pressure builds, but when you turn the car on it jsut wont hold, i can push all the way to the floor.

unforutnately im completely out of new brake fluid so a 30 min trip to the store i go..

im gonna try the MC next...but i would think that after hours 4+ of bleeding that any air in the MC would be moved to the lines