So I have a 4 cylinder Honda Accord Lx circa 1996.

It has a 5 speed manual transmission.

The problem: I had just a master cylinder and slave cylinder replaced two weeks ago.

But now there is a mystery problem. After I get into the car, after it's been sitting for awhile, and I start to drive, as I drive, I notice that while it is in 4th gear, or any gear for that matter, and I hit the accelerator, the RPM's spike (as though it's in neutral). It gets to the point where I can shift it into gear, take my foot off the clutch and not rev the engine, and the car does not stall, nor move. At that point it's undrivable.

The funny part: If I let the car sit for a few hours, it's as though it has reset itself and it works fine.

What the hell is going on? I've having a shop take a look at it, but so far they are baffled. They are calling in a transmission specialist.

Any ideas?

Steve


Modified by speednutsII at 7:34 AM 3/16/2006

 

I'd suspect the Clutch Pressure plate and a subsiquently glazed Clutch Disc.
Check for an oil leak from the rear main seal. It could have contaminated the clutch disc as well.

P

 

Sounds like a clutch problem to me too.

 

clutch is relatively new. They've looked it over and said there doesn't seem to be any issues with it.

 

sorry, they also checked it over for leaks and could not find any as well. It has been looked over by a bunch of different people from two shops and they said they couldn't see any leaks.

Any other possibilities?

 

I'm sorry too, but it still sounds like it's Clutch Pressure Plate related.
As this occures, do you notice if the clutch pedal releases at the same point as this condition progresses?
The only other thing I could think of would be a condition we sometimes had to deal with in the Brake system. The brake Fluid would boil under harsh conditions and internally build up pressure until the Brakes locked up.
But, unlike the brakes, the clutch has no opportunity to heat up it's fluid (unless the hoses/pipes were to be run to close to the exhaust pipe.....and the fluid had the boiling point of water.
In leu of a lack of other viable suspects, I'm still putting my Monopoly Money on the Pressure Plate.

P

 

By clutch release, you mean when I take my foot off the clutch, right? (PS i know **** about cars)

They said the clutch released (if that's what you mean) a little high to begin with. But yes, as the problem gets worse, it tends to release higher and higher until it gets to a point where it's not releasing at all (hence the car isn't going anywhere).

They say it might be electrical.

Why would the problem first appear and then disappear after the car has sat for awhile? Is that something that usually occurs with a clutch plate malfunction?

However, if it is the clutch plate, what kind of replacement/costs does that entail?

thanks

 

did the problem start happening after the replacement of the clutch and slave cylinders????? ........did you use honda parts??..does the pedal feel normal ? or does it engage lower than it did before you replaced the parts..

 

It started immediately after the slave and master cylinder were replaced. I don't know if honda parts were used. I had a goodyear look at it. Before the slave and master cylinder were replaced, the problem was non-existent.

It engages a lot higher than it used to. I think that's probably because the master and slave cylinders were going bad right? But now it engages very high.

Basically, goodyear did the original work, so if my current problem is tied in with the work they did, they need to look at it. Which is why I'm having them look at it again (warranty for work). They gave me a hard time about because the problem is so gradual (takes 20 minutes for it to work). They test drove it and still couldn't get the problem to occur. I picked it up, drove it myself, and just barely got it back in time to show them that when I put it in gear, the car doesn't move...at all. However, the next morning, no problem. They still had a hard time figuring it out.

 

sounds like you got an issue with the clutch master pedal lenght ( adjustment ) ,,I have seen it happen on brake master cylinders, when push rod is misadjusted, after driving a while it locks up the brakes.......this on the other end , engages the clutch and makes it act up as if you are pushing the clutch pedal down,,,,,I would have them chk the push rod lenght on the clutch master , and i am willing to bet they used some cheap *** master cylinder,, have them install a honda cylinder .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speednutsII &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it tends to release higher and higher until it gets to a point where it's not releasing at all (hence the car isn't going anywhere).
They say it might be electrical.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If they truely made that "electrical" comment; RUN do not walk as far away from that bunch as you can. There's absolutely (positively) NOTHING electrical about the Clutch release system, or the clutch itself.

It's as I expected. Either:
1) The Clutch Pressure Plate Belville spring (the big Diaphram type spring is deforming once it's heating up and pushing back against the release fork and subsiquently the slave cylinder; to the point it can't fully engage any more. OR
2) Have the Clutch Slave/Master fluid changed (flushed)
Those are the only two things that could be causing the problem

P

 

LOL LOL ...... shoot. i missed the part where they said it might be electrical,,,that inded is a good one,,,,,,,,
If the problem started after they replaced the master and slave , concentrate on those 2 things to start with............
After hearing the comment they made about problem could be electrical . i wonder how competent these guys are..well let me rephrase that,,, they are not competent at all ...my advice ...GTHOOT....( get the hell out of there )..find a shop that specializes on Hondas ..

 

perhaps, call me a noob but, maybe one of the pistons doesnt fit right, and it has to expand (warm up) before it works right... idk

 

Electrical huh... so mabye the reverse light switch? Speed sensor? What a joke.

 

what kind of clutch? and did you break it in? probably toasted/glazed it if you didnt.

 

Hopefully (but not surprising) it isn't a Duralast set from DeathZone Auto Parts, We've had four instances (so far this year alone) of that s...t failing in all manner of ways.
And with regards to the Clutch Pedal height adjustment being off.... If it were, you'd be experiencing a slipping condition from the moment you first started driving. Unlike the brake system, where a binding Caliper is in direct contact with the heat sourse (and would boil the brake fluid), the Clutch Release system has no such direct exposure to heat (The Slave cylinder (closest component) is mounted outside the bellhousing) and would not boil it's fluid....

Pressure Plate

P

 

The first thing I would check is the clutch master cylinder pushrod length. If it's too long it wont let the fluid back into the resevoir properly. A little pressure can build up causeing the clutch to slip.

 

post the diagnose once it is known,, I am curious as to what they find wrong with it..

 

Thanks for all the feedback. So they finally diagnosed the problem. They took it out for a drive, brought it back in and smelled that burning clutch smell. Apparently it was some spring that wore out the clutch. On top of that, the master cylinder and slave cylinder had been bad for a long time so that apparently contributed to wear. For some reason, however, the bad clutch wasn't noticeable before the slave and master cylinder were replaced and was only noticeably afterward. Let me know if that that doesn't make sense. Any thoughts on what exactly happened? I'm still somewhat fuzzy on why the clutch would have worn out so quickly.

They pulled the clutch apart and found the pressure plate had been relatively new. So it had been replaced recently, but before I bought the car. So they've gone through the entire clutch system, replacing parts. They even replaced a rear seal connecting the transmission to the engine. Apparently it had been leaking oil. I figured since they already had it open that it'd be wise to just do it right then and there.

Anyway, 1200 bucks later, I'm back on the road. God save me.

Steve

 

P.S. Looks like P_Adams is the winner. He predicted a rear main seal leak, a bad Belville spring causing clutch wear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speednutsII &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">P.S. Looks like P_Adams is the winner. He predicted a rear main seal leak, a bad Belville spring causing clutch wear. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the "That Fixed it!!" report.
I always find it a mixed blessing that (all of us) was able to help, yet cost you $1200.usd in doing so. I truely hoped it could have been something stupidly simple, but hey; broken pieces don't lie....

Regards P.

 

I was rooting for the infamous "electrical problem." I spoke to them on the phone and they told me everyone in the shop thought it might have been a transmission problem. I nearly hit the floor. It could have been cheaper, but...it could have been much more costly. They took it out for a final test drive and finally diagnosed it as the clutch. Whatever, I'm glad it's repaired.

 

In leu of anything totally wierd happening, you shouldn't have to look at the Clutch again for 100k. You've got a fine car there (Ok, I'm biased - so sue me ) and it should give you a lot of service for quite some time.

Regards P.

 

$1200!?!? For that you could have bought a F22B2, hell, a F22B1 with tranny and still had money to spare...

 

Yeh, and I suppose you'd install it for nothing for him, Right?
Listen, If you're not going to be part of the process; don't come in here questioning someone's dicisions. $1200 was the price; I'm quite sure there was an estimate involved along the way.
Perhaps the price seems a bit of a shock, since in most places we don't still use the barter system anymore. What's the going rate there, 340 chickens?