Sorry if this is the wrong forum but i have no clue where this would go.

Im currently in the progress of loosing my b18c5 for a k20a2 in my 97 itr but i want to covert from a oil pan/pump system to a dry sump system. I know there is no kits made in the US because i been searching for the last 5 days straight. I came across this page alot http://www.paceproducts.co.uk/...ent=3 they say they make one for the k series but i was wondering is a real thing or is it a by me expletive up my motor thing?

Plus if any you have or know people that have done a dry sump system in there k series motor if you could assist me on converting mine.

Thanks,
Titus

If you need to move the thread to the proper one due so. Sorry for posting in wrong area

edit
Heres the link to the so called k20 dry sump kit
http://paceproducts.co.uk/php/...ent=3
/edit


Modified by cltitus at 3:20 PM 3/12/2006

 

probably the wrong place for this thread, but what is dry sump and why are you trying to switch to it?

 

Its vacuum oil pump system instead of the oil pump gear. Reason for switching is because im going to be turning the engine into a stricking track car fully built na motor. Plus trying to loose most weight as possible. This isnt a daily driven anymore due to the fact that im deploying again and my dad is giving me his old truck since he bought a new one. I love the 69 Dodge

 

Not the wrong place by any stretch of the imagination. A link or cross posting in the Road Race / Autocross forum would be useful.

Nice find.

Scott, who is glad that this is of absolutely no interest to himself...yeah, absolutely no interest...right now...bookmarked it though...

 

Pretty much all the pumps you can get will actually make you lose power as they were created for V8's.

You'd have to get a pump and have a bracket fab'd.

3-stage pumps are around $1,200-$1,500 for the pump itself.

You need to make sure you use a good oil filter and keep up on your oil changes. Unless you use an OEM pump, the clearances are a lot tighter on the aftermarket pumps since they are for race purposes. If you run ITB's you need to use a filter. Either way make sure your ait filter is real good. Junk in your oil will destroy the pump rather quickly.

There really is no reason to do this. Stock pump works fine in the high RPM range and with a baffled pan you shouldn't have starvation problems out on track. Also, this will add quite a bit of weight to the car.

 

A quick breakdown for everyone that doesn't know.

You have a very short oil pan. No oil is stored in it. Instead is is sucked out by an external pump and sent to a remote oil tank (gives you ability to run as much oil as you want). That is a one stage pump. You can also get multiple stage pumps which also create a vacuum in the crankcase. This is where you gain the power at. You just have to make sure it pulls the right amount of vacuum otherwise power is a moot point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pretty much all the pumps you can get will actually make you lose power as they were created for V8's.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just a side note that many Porsches since 1965 have been dry sump.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...There really is no reason to do this. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Imagine that you're swapping a K-motor into something like a DC2.

I personally measured the ground clearance on one at 2.75 inches - not a good thing.

I've read that Hasport has improved the situation by raising the motor. One step forward, one step back.

A dry sump setup would allow one to simultaneously minimize cg height while maximizing ground clearance (I know - there's still the matter of the gearbox).

Scott, who seems like one of the very few who see's really low hanging alloy oil pans as a potential problem...but then I grew up around Alfa's and saw plenty of broken oil pans...wonderful, beautiful, Broken oil pans...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Imagine that you're swapping a K-motor into something like a DC2.

I personally measured the ground clearance on one at 2.75 inches - not a good thing.

I've read that Hasport has improved the situation by raising the motor. One step forward, one step back.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The low point on my recently swapped motor isn't the oil pan at all. The newest HASport mounts put the motor high enough that the scrape point would be the back part of the header.

Unless I straddle a gater with a low point on the far side, I really don't think the oil pan's going to be a problem.

Yesterday Corey and I drove it all over gravel and dirt roads in the country...no problems at all.

Well...no problems except we can't always find fifth gear.

 

Are you saying you ran it at speeds up to 100 mph up over curbing 3-4 inches tall? Or that you stuck the inside front into a 3-4 inch deep hole on the inside of some tall gators? Or that you ran thru a rutted gravel trap and slammed the whole front of the car down hard as the front wheels disappeared? Or...well, you get the picture right?

Scott, who is just saying that "I" wouldn't run a K swap without a dry sump...but that's just me...I'm funny that way...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The low point on my recently swapped motor isn't the oil pan at all. The newest HASport mounts put the motor high enough that the scrape point would be the back part of the header.

Unless I straddle a gater with a low point on the far side, I really don't think the oil pan's going to be a problem.

Yesterday Corey and I drove it all over gravel and dirt roads in the country...no problems at all.

Well...no problems except we can't always find fifth gear. </TD></TR></TABLE>

haha my country road i have got to wot in 5th gear. and the hasport mounts add a good deal of oil pan clearance but im still going with a dry sump system once i get back to the states

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you saying you ran it at speeds up to 100 mph up over curbing 3-4 inches tall? Or that you stuck the inside front into a 3-4 inch deep hole on the inside of some tall gators?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm saying that the oil pan is about 5" from the ground, which isn't much closer than the B18's oil pan was, if it's closer at all.

If you're deliberately trying to bottom it out, I'm sure you'll find a way even with the Showa 14K springs on the nose.

Let's not get silly, though. My only point is that it's not as big a problem as it was when people first started swapping with the old mounts.

If somebody wants to do a dry sump, has the money for it, and knows what he's doing, it would be dumb to stop him because it is a clearly superior system.

 

George,

What kind of ride height are you running? To the front fender lips, jack pads, etc?

When you say 5 inches at the pan, it doesn't say how much of that is from chassis ride height.

Here's some context:

This time it was a K20 under the hood of his GSR. It's just a stock JDM Type-R motor as yet unimproved, but that was enough to transform the car he said. He's going to build it over the winter, and I can't imagine what a gas it will be to drive then. I asked him a bunch of questions. Yup - it evened up his left/right to within 4 lbs. But, the one thing that I had to check was ground clearance at the pan. It was 2.75 inches on a pretty typical DC2 ride height (23 inches to the fender lip, 4.5 inches to the jackpad, 4.0 inches to the splitter). For comparison my car at a quarter inch lower measured 4.0 inches to the pan. Ron's header was lower than the pan, and my Comptech higher. He ate the curb in the chicane and escaped damage, but the possibility occured to him. He's planning a skid plate.


We should be sure to talk apples to apples.

Scott, who thinks it's crazy to talk to apples, but everybody seems to do it...if I ever hear one talking back to me I'm gonna start worrying...

 

Im guessing you couldnt just get a more shallow, custom made oil pan for the K motors?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im guessing you couldnt just get a more shallow, custom made oil pan for the K motors?</TD></TR></TABLE>

since hasport made a better k series swap mount you dont need to get shallow or custom pan.

Reason for thinking obt a dry sump system is there is no starvation issues at any speeds because of the vacuum effect so you power lose in high speed cornering.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you say 5 inches at the pan, it doesn't say how much of that is from chassis ride height....</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think you're over-thinking. There is enough clearance, IMHO, between the ground and the low point of the oil pan.

I must be very dense indeed to misunderstand how there could be any confusion about that.

Perhaps I am old and senile. It's certainly possible.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cltitus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Reason for thinking obt a dry sump system is there is no starvation issues at any speeds because of the vacuum effect so you power lose in high speed cornering.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've been wondering about that, since I had a baffled oil pan in the B motor.

People who drive these newfangled things don't seem to have quite as much trouble as they had w/the B motors.

I hope they know what they're talking about!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cltitus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reason for thinking obt a dry sump system is there is no starvation issues at any speeds because of the vacuum effect so you power lose in high speed cornering.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You have never driven on a track before and oil starvation should be the least of your concerns. BTW, this will not be legal in Honda Challenge.

I know you're excited, but don't get ahead of yourself. Just worry about getting out on track and having fun honing your skills.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think you're over-thinking. There is enough clearance, IMHO, between the ground and the low point of the oil pan.

I must be very dense indeed to misunderstand how there could be any confusion about that.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

The motor is attached to the chassis. Two factors affect the ground clearance at the pan: the placement of the motor in the chassis, and the ride height of the chassis.

If that's over-thinking, then I plead guilty.

Scott, who's just trying to help...but there's only so much I can do...

 

Porsches pumps are configured to the engines they are on.

There are only two companies that make pumps for 4 cylinders, not sure if they're still running though.

I just don't see this being very, whats the word? Economic for a car that won't be HC legal (unless he wants to run in the almost non-existent HU).

If he has money and just wants a fast track car, have at it. Dry sumps are wondering when you get them setup right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Two factors affect the ground clearance at the pan: the placement of the motor in the chassis, and the ride height of the chassis....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you asking if we adjusted the chassis to get that clearance?

The answer is no, we did not.

With the B motor the chassis was lowered to get -2.5 at the front and -1.5 at the rear.

The chassis was not raised or lowered for the K motor.

 

are the 2.0 kits fromhttp://www.pegasusautoracing.comany good? doesnt look like theyre for v8s.


i wonder if one of these would work.
Mugen runs dry sumps on their f3 b20 motos. in wonder if they make them for the ks as well..

 

The pace kit really looks poor in my opinion.
You should definately have AN fittings for pressure lines in that circumstance anyway. and that price (converted to USD) is WAY too cheap. I wouldnt feel right personally spending less than 3000.00

And dont get me wrong, I would use Dry Sump on my K if i had money to waste, its a far more benifical system than a traditional wet sump system. Not only do you have constant pressure, but you also heavily reduce pumping losses with vac in the crankcase. Quite a big headache for nothing though if you really dont NEED it.

-s

 

GEORGE...

Can you post a pic of your oil pan clearance?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think you're over-thinking. There is enough clearance, IMHO, between the ground and the low point of the oil pan.

!</TD></TR></TABLE>


I KNOW SCOTT IS OVER-THINKING THIS!!!!!

my k in my car is at least 5 inches off the ground,.....

i go off roading all the time
i hit curbs like none other, cept maybe corey
and i have NO SCRAPES on my pan at all!!!!!!

that engine with the 2.75 clearance....probably did NOT use hasport mounts, was probably a cheap ebay copy and that is why it sat way to low!

i think todd reids setup with the skid plate of 3/8 inch metal has more than 2.75 inches and he has the original hasport mount kit and HE IS GHETTO SLAMMED in the front!!!

scott you are way over thinking this!

 

ground clearance issues....my ****!