Are there any sings of ring failure other than smoking and using oil? The reason I ask, is because i've been lead to believe that my rings are bad in my block by a few people and although it does use oil, it doesn't use very much (and i have no oil restrictor and i'm failrly confident that once that's installed, the use of oil will go away for the most part)

Also - as far as smoking goes, it's pretty quirky as to when it wants to smoke. At idle, it does not smoke. If the car idles for a while, then i go to drive it, it'll smoke for the first minute or so of driving. While driving around town (not in boost) the car does not smoke... and if for some reason it does, it won't do it the next time the car is started (even if it's immediately after i notice it smoking). Occasionally the car smokes while getting coming into boost. While in boost, it lets out a fairly nice puff of smoke.

All the smoke that i'm talking about is a bluish hue ... so i know it's oil related... it has never been black, grey or white.

While at idle, the motor sounds a lot louder than it has ever been. It's a ticking noise coming from somewhere in the block (not in the head). Compression was 180 in 1,2,3 and 130ish in 4. The ticking doesn't seem to get any louder under load...

Also, the oil pressure at idle is roughly 15psi at idle

Starting yesterday, about 15 minutes before I got home .. the car will idle at 900, then just drop down to almost 0, shake like it wants to shut off and then either shut off or bounce back up to 900 and idle fine for a while and do the same thing.

These are wiseco 84mm pistons too, and i've heard they have some problems with ringlands/rings at high rpm (dunno if 8200 rpm is considered 'high' though since it is stock) and high horsepower (car dyno'd at 410... but not exactly 'high' anymore nowadays hah).

Obviously I'm only on a butt dyno - but the car still seems to be making just as much power as it always has.

I have never had rings go bad or seen/heard a motor that they have gone bad in ... so i am unaware if bad rings will actually make the motor noisy... any other conclusions as to what my problem is if its not rings?

Any help is appreciated ... I can even get a video of the car idling if you'd like.

Thanks guys

 

on the catastrophic end, it will idle like a wrx. and with #4 being that low i would suspect ring lands. #4 is usually the cylinder that goes.

 

Christ - talk about quick replying ... hah.

Anyway - bad ring lands = new piston, correct?

 

correct

 

thanks for the help guys .. the motor gets pulled as soon as we get my friend's k swap running and i can use my buddy's garage ... so we'll go from there. I'm going to order some new pistons and get it rolling from there.

 

You know .....I've seen alot of times where someone brings in a motor thinking the rings are out just because its smoking or eating alot of oil. ALMOST all of hondas are prone to beat the **** out of the valve guides. Anyways I've seen alot of heads that were leaking oil in through the guides and into the combustion chamber. Do a leak down and you will know for sure.

 

when i blew my motor with 4 bad ringlands
i replaced it with 4 used pistons with 4 used rings:-D
compresion is 180 across

it only smokes when i go in wot or when i cruise while in gear without giving it any gas for like 20sec
im pretty sure my is ring problems since i didnt hone or bore my walls

 

lets say you get compression like 190 190 190 85 85 being the 4th cylinder. Are you saying that it could just be the valve guide seals? I think not. My dad said that if you add a drop of oil after the compression test in the bad cylinder and the compression shoots up then its a ring. We did that for mine and the compression ended up being about 140 so that means its the rings he says. What do you think?

 

when i blew my ringlands

oil didnt even help since it was so bad:-D
only had 30psi compression

 

When mine blew I also had more smoke out of the valve cover breather.

Also, my block catch-can which used to get full in a month started getting full every couple of days.

 

i read your signature and i noticed that you blew all 4 ringlands on a B16. Thats funny, mine was on a B16 block too. Tuned on hondata for 12 psi and running 9 psi. B16 rings SUCK ***

 

Hey careful guys

i though my similar issue was rings, turned out to be the valves not seating properly and leaking oil into the cylinder

 

is that possible? smoke is coming out of my breather though. comp was 190 190 190 85 piston 4 being 85 after adding a few drops of oil in the cylinder compression went up to 150 or so , so my dad says its the rings. I allready think i need a new engine at this point so if someone knows any other info that could help i would appreciate it. Catchcan is a must on next engine.

 

i've heard about the drops of oil in the bad cylinder raising compression thing - i just haven't got my hands on a tester again to try it out.. I wish i would have known i was going to pull the motor soon - otherwise i wouldn't have just got my valvetrain installed and just waited till it was pulled and got new valves and stuff too.

Either way - i'm just gonna pull it .. put new pistons in it, and get new valves/valveguides ... my friend will redo the valvetrain install for free at his work. I guess i might as well pick up a catchcan as well ... hah, just so i can measure my blowby.

maybe i'll bump to a bb t3/t67 while i'm at it .... although credit card debt is a bitch

 

these are tell tale signs of cracked ring lands.

i had the same symptons. would barely hold an idle and often had to keep the revs up at a stop sign to keep her from dying on me.

started to sound more lke a WRX at idle with a loud rumble. power was noticably down.

fix this asap before you trash your cylinder walls if you havnt already! dont drive it!!!!!!


Edit: I also brought my head in to get checked when i did my tear down, my valve guides and seats were fine, it was completely a block related issue. just thought that would help.

i had smoke pouring out my valve cover as well as my dipstick tube. These are all good signs to look for.

 

ok thanks, would a catchan setup really benefit a turbo setup as far as reliability is concerned?

 

oh yes, 100%

do a search for the user "Dasher" he's got a HUGE write up in here about catchcan set ups.

as well as the user "turbotime" do a search you'll find more info then you need and prolly take you a good hour to read it all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by T3T495GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is that possible? smoke is coming out of my breather though. comp was 190 190 190 85 piston 4 being 85 after adding a few drops of oil in the cylinder compression went up to 150 or so , so my dad says its the rings. I already think i need a new engine at this point so if someone knows any other info that could help i would appreciate it. Catchcan is a must on next engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Not the seals...the valve GUIDES and seals...they might be barreled or coned..leaking oil from the top of the head down into the valve into the cylinder. If you have good compression or better yet leak down then that's your problem. For what its worth I've built some serious motors that still hold records today so Im sure my word over your dad would stand up pretty good in a pissing contest

Just messin with ya!

 

so are you saying that if i build the motor, and i still have bad seals which i think i dont have, then i will still have the same problem, but if i replace the seals w/out building the engine then i might be able to save it?

 

pretty much...but by replacing the seals your not gonna fix the problem if in fact its the problem. Seals go out due to wear in the valve guides...if your valve is moving around in the guide then it will beat the hell out of the new seals again...
You can start by pulling off the exhaust or intake manifolds and check with a pin light if you have excessive oil built up on the the tulip of the valve.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by T3T495GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i read your signature and i noticed that you blew all 4 ringlands on a B16. Thats funny, mine was on a B16 block too. Tuned on hondata for 12 psi and running 9 psi. B16 rings SUCK *** </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep. Stock b16 + aggressive timing = same bye-bye to ringlands.

 

why dont you buy a leakdown tester and actually diagnose where the lost compresion is going ......youll need a place with an air compressor and youll need to set each cylinder to top dead center where the piston is up and all valves are closed

it will pressurize that cylinder with a regulated 100 psi of air and give you a number of how much of that 100 ppsi is being leaked out....

you will hear the air coming out of the oil dipstick/crankcase oil fill hole if its the bottom end.....

if its exhaust valves you will hear it in the exhaust / muffler

intake valve - throttle body so on

 

will do d@nny ... i was gonna do a leak down before i pulled it anyway. It pretty much has to be either/or ... so i'll pull it, clean some stuff up and get whichever fixed. I'm pretty confident that it's in my block, but we'll see once i do the leakdown.