Hello All,

Not posted on here for a long time - so long in fact I cant seem to log in and think I registered with a previous work address so cant get my old account details - if a mod can help please do as i have had to re-register.

Well after about 7 years of UK weather my ITR failed its first MOT on corroded brake lines. As I was going to give the underneath some TLC anyway I decided to take the car off the road and sort out the brake pipes whilst I sorted the rust issues out.

I ordered new brake lines from Honda last week and picked them up and have removed the gas tank etc. Problem is as some of you may know those lines along with the 3 gas lines are not the easiest things to work on on an ITR.

My problem lies up front where the lines go up between the subframe and firewall. Its so tight. I have been searching HT on both the ITR and Integra boards to figure out how to do this but not really got much info. Apart from the fact I have to drop the tank and possibly the front subframe.

So my question is how do you drop the front subframe (just a few inches) to get the lines through relatively easily. I looked in the Shop manual and there is 1 page dedicated to the subframe and shows you only where the bolts go! Also it has no information on how to replace lines, it just says if corroded replace! Yeah I wonder why they didnt go into any detail - perhaps because its a complete pain to do.

So has anyone else done this or know how to approach this? i only need it to drop a couple of inches but dont know where to start - what do i have to remove? Any help appreciated. In fact PLEASE HELP!

 

I'm really shocked that the actual lines are that rusty? I could understand the rubber hoses being worn and dry rotted but not the metal lines. Do you have a pic that you can post? The reason you couldnt find this searching is probably because its not done for this reason. What has the car been thru? Dipped in the ocean?

 

Ha have you been to the UK? If you were an imported JDM vehicle with not much underbody protection and were a daily driver (that includes winters) youd get rusty lines :-)

its currently 1deg outside thats what my poor ITR has to deal with.

Theres a guy called JimBlake who did it on HT. but I cant IM him as my new account wont let me.

So you want a photo. ok. but dont judge me too much i love my car and have always looked after it just maybe should have given the underneath a little more attention :-






Modified by BenMasters2 at 2:19 PM 3/20/2006

 

DAYUMN!!!!

 

Yeah. Take note people. If you got an ITR with little under protection sort it now cos if mines like it now then some others will be too in some time.

 

Wow!!! If you plan on keeping that car I would strongly recomend undercoating! Look into some stuff called POR15, its unbelievable. I have never seen an integra that looked like that!! I will search/pm JimBlake.

 

Ali

 

JimBlake was PM'd this link.

 

****! i know there wasn't much you could have done except to coat it in the past, but the past is past

rhino line that bad boy

 

Thanks man. Got the POR 15 in my garage arrived last week ;-)

I have stripped most rear end. Just leaving the damper and lower arms on.
I have wire brushed (drill attachment) most of the rear end down. Parts of it down to metal.
I am going to POR Metal Ready it first > then POR 15 paint it with a few coats > then I have bought some polyurethane paint to go over the top to make it look pretty! http://www.protectakote.co.uk/

The tank has been wire brushed and metal ready'd and is now ready to paint.

Its all surface but to be honest I couldnt leave it another winter over here.

I figure what i am spending on parts/products etc is what Honda would have charged to do the lines.

The boot pan is fine if its any consolation. Some bits I am sending off to be powder coated(tank straps, lower tie bar, sway bar)

My two biggest issues thou are the lines as per this thread and the fuel filler line as when i disconnected it at the weekend I had to force it off its foam neck seal.

 

Thanks for PM'ing JimBlake. Appreciate it totally.

I am going to take some more photos this weekend.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN.R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">****! i know there wasn't much you could have done except to coat it in the past, but the past is past

rhino line that bad boy </TD></TR></TABLE>

With Rhino you have to take care of the rust first. POR15 you can apply directly to rust and it will stop it.

Ben,

I will do some research on the task at hand and post back up as soon as i find some info.
Oh and I have been to the UK

 

I personally didn't find POR15 to work very well....and I followed the instructions to a T and got their silver type as it supposedly contains metal and will fill in small pinholes etc.

I applied it to the sunroof plug that I had put into my Civic and the edges are already showing signs of rust.

I also tried it on several Civics that had relatively minor corrosion issues in the rear arches.... I feel for the money there are better products out on the market that may likely outperform it.

Consider:

http://www.rustbullet.com

and also

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump...D=372

I think I'm going to buy both products and compare them as I've lost a bit of faith in the POR15 already....Good luck with your restoration

 

dude, good luck with the replacement of the lines. it's not easy to do on ANY car. there IS no flat rate labor time for those things. just straight time.

this dumb broad ran over some **** in her 04 cr-v and i had to replace the fuel and brake hard lines on that thing. what a nightmare! took 12 hours. remove the gas tank, steering rack, propellor shaft, exhaust, lower the subframe, etc. and be sure not to bend the lines *too* much.. because it's near impossible to get them into position without a slight bend. good luck.

 

If you have the access to a media blaster you should clean all that up before applying any type of undercoating.

I had an '88 Mustang 5.0 that looked worse than that and this is what I did to stop the cancer:

sandblasted undercarriage $150
seam welded (tig) unibody and control arm mounts (rear sub) $200
applied 6 cans of epoxy primer $40
then finished of with 6 cans of rust-o-leum flat black $30

for less than $400 I had a fresh new undercarriage to build on. It was a PITA but well worth it. When I sold the car I got above average money for it.

 

I spoke with my friend about dropping the subframe. He has never done an integra sub-frame but said it should only be like 6 bolts holding it on, not including all the **** thats attached from the top

 

careful with the steering rack and PS lines when dropping the subframe. it's really not that hard, the PITA is lining up your steering wheel after

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by walker111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">JimBlake was PM'd this link. </TD></TR></TABLE>Well, I never actually dropped the sub-frame. I had about the same problem, so I ordered the factory lines (pre-bent). Got the fuel lines but the brake lines were backordered. Then I decided I really didn't have the time to lay up the car (besides not having a lift...).

The dealer mechanic said they can use their lift & lower the subframe just a bit. Loosen all the bolts but don't take them out. That gives just enough room to work the lines into place. (I'll believe that when I see it.) Maybe you can support under the subframe & engine, while you lift the body off using the front-side jacking points?

Anyway, I had a shop do it for me (not the dealer). Looks like he cut the factory lines near the base of the firewall, & put them back together with compression fittings. Brake lines were probably made up from bulk tubing since he could make the double flares at the ends. I've sold the car so I can't give too much more detail. It may have been better to just plan on using bulk tubing from the outset.

 

Limited to 5 posts in 24 hours! gutted.

So if you drop the subframe do you have to take the rack out first? What a job.

JimBlake - your post is interesting as today i have been looking into the possibility of cutting and joining the pipes at the firewall. Still trying to read up on it. It would save me a whole load of hassle for sure. Does anyone know what metal the ITR brake pipes? I was looking at flaring kits but most say for soft metal only - copper, soft aluminium etc. Are the Honda ones steel?

If I cut the new ones in two. I could take them somewhere to get them flared. It would be much easier to fit each pipe in two parts. I think it would make it easier to get down between the subframe like that. then fit the back one and join them.

What u think?

 

I forgot how that looked under there, whether the rack has to come out or what... I'm just glad to see a lot more clearance on the '98 Accord so that won't be so nasty.

It seemed like there was 2 separate kinks in the pre-formed line, down at the firewall, so you might want to bend some piano wire into the shape of the tube. Play with that until you can really figure out where you want to cut.

Those 5 lines are all steel on my GSR. I don't think the R is any different for that. Don't try to use a kit that says it's only for copper.

The fuel return & vapor vent lines aren't under much pressure, so you could probably use a hose & clamps. I wouldn't do that for the fuel supply tube. DEFINITELY NOT for the brakes, they need to hold too much pressure.

 

living in a humis climate will do that to a car il glad i live where humidity is next to nothing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BenMasters2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Limited to 5 posts in 24 hours! gutted.

So if you drop the subframe do you have to take the rack out first? What a job.

JimBlake - your post is interesting as today i have been looking into the possibility of cutting and joining the pipes at the firewall. Still trying to read up on it. It would save me a whole load of hassle for sure. Does anyone know what metal the ITR brake pipes? I was looking at flaring kits but most say for soft metal only - copper, soft aluminium etc. Are the Honda ones steel?

If I cut the new ones in two. I could take them somewhere to get them flared. It would be much easier to fit each pipe in two parts. I think it would make it easier to get down between the subframe like that. then fit the back one and join them.

What u think? </TD></TR></TABLE>

the rack can come out with the subframe as 1 piece, just be careful with the PS lines and knuckle from the steering column to the rack.

i don't think the honda brake lines are steel, i used a normal flare kit on brake lines before

 

Well I've looked and looked and then looked some more. The only way forward is to drop the frame.

I'm gonna finish off the rear end first, Ill cut the old pipes - all five of them so I have more room to work and not mess about. Then paint and protect her *** and do the tank. Refit the rear suspension and make sure all is good that end.

Then Ill go to the front and start tackling that. To be honest i kinda feel about it but there you go. what can you do. The petrol pipes arent in the greatest condition and if im doing the brake lines then i might as well do the petrol lines while im on.

So if anyone has any more hints and tips about dropping the front frame let me know. I looked around it tonight and it looks like a mare.

It would be easier to pull the engine but thats another task. To be honest I dont know what my intentions are with the car as a whole. The front end is messy and could do with some TLC too even the subframe has some rot on it and the CV boots will need replacing soon. Just how much commitment do you give it. Well i suppose it sums it up to say I wouldnt have sold the the car as it was. Perhaps I should strip it and hand it over to get the shell repainted and undercoated by a specialist.

Anyway if you want to see some pics of my love affair then take a look, oh and by the way i have full support of the other lady in my life :-


2001

2002

2003

2004

 

I'd leave the gas tank & rear stuff out. The brake lines go out & around stuff, so after you position the lines up front, you'll wish the tank was removed so you can get them in place back there.

 

same here.. and i'd consider pulling the motor.. it will give you a lot more room to work.. replacing those lines probably is the biggest PITA job on the car, as you nearly have to take 1/2 of it apart to do what you're doing properly..