Anyone road-race or autocross a Prelude on slicks? Ever have oil pressure drop due to the oil pump sucking air?

A fellow tells me he knows people who race Hondas and they never have any problems. I disagree based upon what I've read here. I suspect he's arguing about D and B-series engines, not H-series, yet he's lumping it in with them.

My plan is to use a Accusump but he's saying I'm wasting time and money. It's for the car in my sig, which will pull higher g's then a Prelude, but he still claims I'm wasting my time...

I'm posting this because I want to make sure I have my facts straight, that an H-series car, in hard cornering, *will* need additional oil control, be it baffling, mouse doors, Accusump, or dry-sump.


Modified by kb58 at 6:20 PM 3/1/2006

 

I have a friend who send a rod through an H22 block on a stock Prelude at the track. Not sure what really caused it though. Who knows... it may have been run low on oil 6 months before that and going to the track just tore a rod bearing the rest of the way up. It's hard to say.

Oil is very important, so I wouldn't say it's a waste to invest in better oiling, as long as it's really better than stock (ie a drag racing oil pan might not be so great for a road course). I overfill my turbo B18B about 1/4 to 1/2 quart and the stock pan has always been enough for me. I see around 75psi of pressure at high rpms, even with the turbo feeding off of the same port that I'm measuring from. I didn't even manage to blow the motor when the "high temp" RTV I used to seal the pan came apart and got sucked up... pic 1 pic 2. I noticed less oil pressure, but it was still within Honda specs. I'm using Hondabond now.

 

I've heard of at least 3 preludes who have had issues with oiling while on a road course. I think it was usually while making long high speed lefts.

 

Our ITS '99 Prelude will drop out of VTEC due to oil pressure drop without an Accusump. Even when it was an SSB car (stock suspension) it would do it occasionally.

 

Either way the accusump is insurance. I'm propbably not going to get in an accident on the way home from work today, but I'm damn sure I'm not going to drive w/o insurance. The cost of the accusump is far less than a rebuild, so it really is a no-brainer to me.

 

I'm not sure the accusump is neccessary, but a baffled oil pan sure is - seems like you're pretty handy with a welder () so pick up a spare pan and go for it

some mugen pan pics here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=758856

 

I usually experience oil starve in quick L-R transitions. most lude owners i've talked to have experienced the same on track.

1/4 qt overfill is what i do to prevent it and it happens less, but accusumps would be a much more solid way of addressing it. or at the least, baffles.

 

Is the stock H22 pan baffled at all?

 

I've never experienced this as of yet, only the PS cut out. But yes, it is an issue that's been reported on the 5th gen Prelude. When I went to the track last time I was over filling after each run even if I over filled the point where it was burning a little bit. Though I'm running 7 quarts of oil with my remote oil filter setup. I don't recall a drop in oil pressure, but I only have a gauge and I don't have anything to log it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not sure the accusump is neccessary, but a baffled oil pan sure is - seems like you're pretty handy with a welder () so pick up a spare pan and go for it

some mugen pan pics here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=758856</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah yeah, I know... it's just a PITA to get to the pan, thanks to how packed-together I made everything. You are right, a baffled pan will go a long way toward fixing the issue, though I still think an Accusump is good insurance.

 

Thanks alot guys, that's all the proof I needed - it stays. And yes R.J. baffling will be added, and I already have a spare pan... What I won't know until the existing pan comes off is how much room I have for baffling. I know what I want to do but have to stay out of the way of the existing pickup and girdle

 

Is the Moroso pan available for the H22 any good? Any others?

 

There's not much room for baffling. We tried a rudimentary baffle (nothing complicated, just a baffle over the dip in the sump right around the pickup), and it didn't help. I'm sure it helped *some*, but the car still lost oil pressure.

I picked up some aluminum piano hinges and I've been wanting to build something with some trap doors, but I have so many other projects going on that I don't have time.

 

I tackled this topic on my 00' type SH a few months back. No one makes a H22 pan off the shelf that can cope with the oiling issues. I looked at accusump, custon pans, and so forth. It became such a headache.

So I sold the car and got an M3.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's not much room for baffling. We tried a rudimentary baffle (nothing complicated, just a baffle over the dip in the sump right around the pickup), and it didn't help. I'm sure it helped *some*, but the car still lost oil pressure..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeap, had the same issue, baffled the pan, didn't help much due to the location of the pickup, for some reason, its not in the center of dip, its on the centermost part of the pan, to the side of the dip.. Now, I wonder if one can just "shorten" the pickup tube to get the pickup to the center of the pan. Its worth a try.

I have to run 6 quarts to keep the car from cutting out of high cam. Prelude pans have NO baffles in them what so ever.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I usually experience oil starve in quick L-R transitions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have the same problem in quick transitions like slaloms. My experience usually comes from auto-x. If the slalom is fast (like top of 2nd gear) and long (like 5+ cone slalom), I would experience the oil starve if I was going through it in 2nd. The car wouldn't oil starve if I went through it in 3rd.

As for track events, there is only one track here in SoCal that I have experienced oil starve. On exit of T3 at the Big Willow, my car oil starved if I took that turn in 2nd gear. Again, it didn't when I took it in 3rd gear but then the rpm dropped below VTEC so I was slow going up hill. Other than this, I have not had oil starvation in other tracks.

 

What about the Moroso h22 pan? Would this work well for drag or road racing?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XES &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about the Moroso h22 pan? Would this work well for drag or road racing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Moroso's one is only good for drag racing.