With the introduction of an improved toyo contingency plan for this season, there is an extra incentive to make it to the podium. And with the series growing very quickly we are seeing a large divide between the skill level of the drivers, and preparation level of the cars, leading to mostly the same people on the podium from race to race.
To ecourage more people to join us in HC, it may be a good idea to impliment a simple rewards weight system. This will attract more people to our series for two reasons; the racing will appear closer and more exciting to a perspective racer looking to get involved in a series; and it will help the newer racers race wheel to wheel with the front runners. After all, we are all in this for excitiing racing or we would all just go run TT.

Another hidden advantage to a rewards weight system is that it will help to equalize the slight advantages givin to certian cars with the current assigned minimum weights. It could also be used as a tool for HC rule makers to see just how much weight each model of car is carrying to promote close racing.

I had in mind something simple to start with.
1st +50lbs
2nd +25lbs
3rd even
4th -25lbs
5th -50lbs
6th -50lbs
7th -50lbs
.
.
.
Maximum weight 100lbs

Weight will be added to the cars weight as raced, not to the minimum weight. This will make it easier to police the rewards weight system. All the person would have to do is poke his head in to confirm the amount of extra weight in the car.

In the event that you have the opportunity to remove weight, ie. finishing in 4th or lower, you cannot weigh less then the minimum weight for your car. Previously earned rewards weight is all that you can remove.

Thoughts?

PS if you are a racer, please respond at http://hondachallenge.zeroforu...d=156
This thread is to gauge non participant/fan support of implimenting such a system.

Please, no spec tire comments

 

and you WILL torcher me in the tech shed with that crap. some cars CANT make it to minimum weight... other cars CAN and DO... and the +/- system would get me even more pissed off in the tech shed

 

how about we just see how this year goes with all the rule changes already made.. "rewards" weight makes little sense at this point.. the "weight as raced" would be difficult to enforce and track.. and there is a fair amount of inconsistency within the registrations.. it's not like every HC driver attends every HC race - in their region or abroad..

then, what do you do at nationals.. I might have a bunch of rewards weight for winning a lot in (OH/IN - I know hardy har har, like that's going to happen), but then when the big boys from CA show up it'll all be different.. my weight will just hurt even more..

piling another bad idea on top of other bad ideas, methinks..

 

Its not a bad Idea once stability is established, but for right not, its probably not a "good" idea..

 

Yeah, my biggest concern is for volunteer tech stewards. And then for the people (like me) who can't make the minimum weight, let alone lose another 50lbs. I like the concept, though.

 

I don't know much, but I don't think its a good idea for the series right now.

 

Do you think that it is a bad idea as a whole, or just the way that I have suggested?

 

for right now, as a whole..

later, if the series is bigger, more consistent, and this becomes a serious problem, then I think with some edits your idea would work..

 

Thanks for the constructive and overall non H-T like comments. Nor Cal H4 has grown to over 10 cars consistently and probably 15 by years end, so its seamed appropriate. But I agree that it would make little sense in an area where only 3-5 cars show up per class, and national consistency is the main priority.

Good talk!

 

If I put another 100 lbs in my floor the whole floor pan will fall off probably

 

Yeah i think it will definetly be a good idea in the future once we have all the base weights and car classes dialed in.

 

I don't think it's a bad idea on a per region basis. I think for nationals, all cars should return to min weight.

My thoughts on implementation:

I think that the rewards weight would have to be measured from the min weight. The reason being that if someone is over min weight and can legally remove weight, then they should still be allowed to do that after a win. This would also make it much easier to police. Also, I think that the weight amounts should be in multiples of 10 just because the 10 lb workout machine plates make good ballast plates that (I think) a lot of people use. For instance, 50 lbs for 1st and 30 lbs for 2nd.

- Scott

 

It is a nightmare to police. For club racing, we should just stick to simple stuff.

 

rewards weight will lead to higher cost of operation.

 

yeah good for WC bad for HC

 

question, is rewards weight given as "over the min weight"? So say you're 55lbs over weight and you win, you get 50 lbs of rewards weight. You don't add anything to the car (still 5lbs over). You win again and you get another 50lbs, you add 45 lbs of lead and you're at the 100lb max. You're still only 45lbs over what you started with.

Is this how it's done in other series? Or is it assumed that all pro race cars are down to min weight anyway?

 

in World Challenge, rewards weight is regardless of what your min weight. IF you can't meet your min weight, it is your own problem.

The rewards weight is weighted seperately and then put into the passenger seat area.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikeski38 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you think that it is a bad idea as a whole, or just the way that I have suggested?</TD></TR></TABLE>


this is amateur racing still!!!

why doyou want to penalize the guy that has the skill....the 50 lbs isnt' gonna matter but it will **** that guy off enough to develope his car more ie aero, more tuning, better suspension

in my opinion it isn't fair to bring the cars closer together if a driver is that dominant!!!

SACK UP AND GET MORE TRACK TIME!!! that's what i gotta say!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


this is amateur racing still!!!

why doyou want to penalize the guy that has the skill....the 50 lbs isnt' gonna matter but it will **** that guy off enough to develope his car more ie aero, more tuning, better suspension

in my opinion it isn't fair to bring the cars closer together if a driver is that dominant!!!

SACK UP AND GET MORE TRACK TIME!!! that's what i gotta say!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you are misunderstanding my motivation. I do not want to penalized skilled drivers. I think that it will accelerate the developement of new drivers so we can have more of what we all want, competetive, close racing. It will also help to ease the gap between racers with large bugets vs. those with small ones, as well as help the new members progress by getting them involved with the faster more experianced drivers.

We can all agree that 100 lbs is not going to make or break a car, but it could even out the difference between a junkyard motor and a legal built motor.

Also, it was simply a suggestion, calm down just a little.

 

Mike,

it will not help to ease the gap between racers with large budget and small ones. If one really want to win, and they have a big budget, they will simply reach down to their pockets and make even more improvements.

It is all come to who want the win badly.

I want to win, and don't have much budget, albeit, maybe more than some. My principal has always been spend the least amount of money possible to win. Rewards weight means more money I need to spend to improve the car. Which I will if I start losing.

 

I agree with others, not a good idea for an ametuer series.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikeski38 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It will also help to ease the gap between racers with large bugets vs. those with small ones, as well as help the new members progress by getting them involved with the faster more experianced drivers.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you really want to do that, then the contingency should be given randomly to those outside of the top 5 finishers. giving contingency $ to those who win (the same people who already have big budgets) does nothing but widen the gap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SACK UP AND GET MORE TRACK TIME!!! that's what i gotta say!</TD></TR></TABLE>


Christian, who's racing in IT w/ no risk of "rewards weight" or spec tires

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


this is amateur racing still!!!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

It says "Pro Racing" right there on the decal Chad.

I think rewards weight is a great idea in pro racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Christian, who's racing in IT w/ no risk of "rewards weight" or spec tires </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey, I said no spec tire comments.

These are all good responses, except for the track time one. The reason I posted was to see what other people though about the idea, because I was kinda on the fence. I really put weight on the comments of people who have actually ran a series with rewards weight (andrie). I was just thinking out load, then onto my computer, then posted up here, but thats it I swear!