Question.

I know everyone on the board spews "Retro, Retro!" etc etc.. Thats all fine and dandy..

My question is this..

Of all of the OEM cars equipped with HID's, I would say that only 50-65% of them are outfitter with projectors.. Yes, I am FULLY aware that projectors > lenses - but how do all of the OEM cars on the road with HIDs and no projectors keep the glare down and put out a decent light output? Is there really any difference between say an older TL with 4000k/6000k headlights from the factory vs. a 5th gen with 4000k headlights? I've seen a half dozen or so 5th gens with non-retro HID's and the ones who had them aimed down didn't glare more than anything and put a pretty decent light pattern..

So assuming you dont go with 8/10/12k HID's and you don't aim them in peoples faces - what are the differences between that and an OEM equipped, non-projector headlighted car.

Thanks for any further insight.

 

Well my cousin owns an ebay HID kit with 6000k and it died on him about a month or so later. He then shipped it back since the warntee covers it and then it worked again for a week or so then ended up dying again. Though how he has a Phillips 3rd generation kit and its been over 3 months with no problems at all.

I think the normal kits where you just plug and play are not well built. Its just quality, like OEM parts > knockoff parts.

I think hidplanet.com might have the answer to that question about reflective housings vs projector housings. Thats my input.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by herovueboi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think hidplanet.com might have the answer to that question about reflective housings vs projector housings. Thats my input.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They answer the question - but not comparing OEM HID with and without projectors..

 

Any more input on this guys? Really curious how the OEM cars equipped with HID's and no projectors keep the glare down and the beam/pattern decent still..

 

Ya i've seen OEM 4th gen headlights outfighted with HIDs and it looked amazing and didn't glare at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94Vtecluder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ya i've seen OEM 4th gen headlights outfighted with HIDs and it looked amazing and didn't glare at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah my boy has 8000k in an 06' Si.. I'm wondering if the style of the headlight or the reflector make a difference..

His didn't glare "too" bad - but he had them pointed almost all the way down too..


I'm more wondering how the OEM, non projector cars do it - cause I notice no glare from them but I notice almost all non-projector 5th gens glare badly.

 

my guess is that it depends on the headlight housing. i've heard alot of the retro and HID gurus bash plug-n-play kits saying that there will be alot of glare and no 'aim' to the light. previously, i thought that retrofitting projectors into oem headlights was the only way to get a nice cutoff but my friend just put a plug-n-play kit into his oem eg headlights and the aim and cutoff were both pretty precise. maybe the quality of the kit is am important factor as well. maybe someone who knows more about this can comment and forgive me for any inaccurate information

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreLuDeSiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my guess is that it depends on the headlight housing. i've heard alot of the retro and HID gurus bash plug-n-play kits saying that there will be alot of glare and no 'aim' to the light. previously, i thought that retrofitting projectors into oem headlights was the only way to get a nice cutoff but my friend just put a plug-n-play kit into his oem eg headlights and the aim and cutoff were both pretty precise. maybe the quality of the kit is am important factor as well. maybe someone who knows more about this can comment and forgive me for any inaccurate information </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think there is a LOT of truth to that statement.. As I stated before - the 06 Si my boy has had a decent cutoff and beam and didn't look too ridiculous with glare either.. It seems the narrow, smaller headlights produce a better bearm..

5th gens seem to suck.. Maybe its the internal set up of the headlight..

More info?

 

bump

 

Basically, the design of the headlight housing is different between the housing for halogen bulbs and HID bulbs. Also, there's a difference between the HID bulbs. There are two types of HID bulbs, D2S and D2R (I don't remember exactly what the bulb numbers are). They are both designed differently--one of the two have a special coating on the bulb to direct the output of the light in a certain direction (either reflective or projective). The OEM headlight housing is also designed for HID lighting--since HIDs emit more light, the beam pattern needs to be more concentrated. Halogen headlight housings are made for halogen bulbs which emit less light. Therefore, a halogen beam pattern is not as concentrated. By putting in HID bulbs into a halogen headlight housing you are using the halogen beam pattern, which creates a glare.

 

had anybody fitted a plug&play kit on 4th jdm black headlights? like 4300k or 5k? I don't think the black jdms will give off too much glare as long as you stay in low kelvins

 

Ditto on what he said. The reason a car with projectors does not create glare is because of the nature of a projector. A projector focuses the light and uses a cutoff shield to keep all the usable light on the ground where it belongs.

Those cars with reflectors and HID bulbs use a D2R bulb, not a rebased D2S bulb like kits use. The fact that the design of a halogen reflector housing is different than a housing that uses D2R bulbs is also a reason why an HID kit using a rebased D2S causes so much glare in a halogen reflector housing.

The simple truth (not opinion) is that an HID kit will never, ever, EVER compare to an HID retrofit. That being said, it's not much of an option to buy the ballasts, wiring harness, and D2R bulbs and use just that in your housing either. You'll get the same sort of results as you would get with a kit.

Kits are notoriously cheap in their build quality, and have horrible reliability. I just finished my retrofit this January. I'm going to take them back apart when I get some free time during spring break and adjust them a little bit. But here's what they look like:

 

I have HIDs in my blackhousings without projectors. I have the H4 casper shields in so that it blocks the light causing upward glare. The output is nothing compared to cars with OEM HID projector setup though which is why I'm about to start a HID projector retro. into the JDM housings with tsx projectors.

 

PreludeSIR speaks the truth..Plug n play is perfectly fine. nice output of light staring down the road. i think the retro guys are giving plug n plays a really bad name because it's the "imatation" or wasn't built like OEM..\

Yes it would be nice to have a retro fittted, i'm sure everyone here feels the same way.. but hell not everyone has all the time in the world and the funds like some of these guys do.. Don't get me wrong.. retro and plug and play are totally not the same., but hey it's something .


You Heard this before.. like from the SPooon guys ripping on the RoTas

Blinding people is not my biggest concern with plug n play.. it's just the quality.. Hell i've been blind enough by OEM BMW HIDS, SUV with HID (Range Rover, porsche, etc), SUVs in general, big *** trucks.. i can care less if you ask me now..


Modified by pprreelluuddee at 8:43 PM 2/7/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chau003 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have HIDs in my blackhousings without projectors. I have the H4 casper shields in so that it blocks the light causing upward glare. The output is nothing compared to cars with OEM HID projector setup though which is why I'm about to start a HID projector retro. into the JDM housings with tsx projectors. </TD></TR></TABLE>


A step ahead of ya, LOL. The TSX projector fits so well, just needs to swap the cover because mines is cracked. This was just an experiement and it turned out pretty good. I bought a cracked JDM headlight for cheap and worked on it so far its looking great.


6000k Ultonons OEM housings

Left TSX with 6000k Ultonons JDM headlight


Retrofit PWNES!!!

Sorry to thread jack.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreLuDeSiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">previously, i thought that retrofitting projectors into oem headlights was the only way to get a nice cutoff but my friend just put a plug-n-play kit into his oem eg headlights and the aim and cutoff were both pretty precise. maybe the quality of the kit is am important factor as well. maybe someone who knows more about this can comment and forgive me for any inaccurate information </TD></TR></TABLE>


There is so much more to it than cutoff. Sure on rare occasion, you may see a reflector headlight produce a straight beam pattern when parked 3 ft away from the wall, and sure you can find cars like integras that come with projector that produce pretty sharp cutoffs with "certain" hid kits.
But, look at the brightness and look at the width. Dont compare cars parked 20 ft away from a wall. Take them to the back of a Walmart, and park 75ft+ away and then make the comparison. Cutoff, color around the cutoff, width, beam pattern being evenly distirbuted wihtout hot spots, and how far ahead it projectors light.

Also, are you comparing these kits with say M3 headlights. Well compare the best kit with the best oem projectors and it's a different world. For example look at the beam pattern and light output of an S2000 projector. With my setup I light up the road in front of the BMW M3 or any car for that matter. Hell I even light up the road in front of an S2000. I have modified S2000 projectors of course.

To answer another question. The design of headlights using D2R are very different than the halogen headlight seen in accords. Trust me on this one.

Hope this helps. If you want to see what a HID retorfit should look like then please visit my webpage. There are many "hacked" retrofit jobs out there, some of which are worse looking than hid kits. Let me add that the OEM HID projector makes the real difference in light output.

Hope this info helps.

 

To clarify, we all know that retorfits are way better than plug-n-play kits so there is no need to keep reminding everyone of something we already know. My point however, is that it is 100% possible for a plug-n-play kit to be halfway decent and to provide better lighting and not blind other drivers on the road. Until I have time to do a retrofit which may not ever happen, I could care less about hotspots, color around the cutoff, width, or beam pattern. All I care about is having more light (because my lights are so dim that it is a danger to myself) and that I don't put other driver's on the road at risk.