went to Trick Engineering in New hampshire last Thursday dynoed in the Accord at 200whp@ 7700rpm. Im saving up for a turbo kit but i decided to throw in some Crower Stage 3 cams and get the car dyno tuned with the hondata just for the hell of it.

 

Cool?

Mods? Graph? Enthusiasm ?

 

well the graph is in the car i dont feel like gettin it lol sorry

mods are as follows
JDM h22a
crower stg. 3 cams
lightweight flywheel
secondaries removed
Hondata s200
stock bottom end (cause i couldnt find type s pistons)
fully rebuilt motor
crower valvetrain
Aem ram air intake
Megan EBAY header with 2.5" collector mod
apexi WS exhaust
and thats about it i think

I was leanin out high up in the powerband so i guess i finally need to get injectors and a fuel pump. Didnt know I was gonna max those out with just cams.

 

hey...how did you get rid of your "secondaries"....?......is that referring to your intake manifold....

 

Those numbers are horrible for those mods. People make 200WHP with JDM H22's with i/h(smsp/rmf)/e and hondata.

 

just remove the vacumm line going from intake to solinoid on the IM... tahts the simple/not as effective way. To do it right you have to take apart the IM and remove them, as well as cut all the extra **** out.... im in the process of doing it

 

Actually I guess those number aren't "that" bad, but I still think you can get a lot more out of it with better tuning. What's your a/f ratio? Here is a similiar setup I happened upon earlier. His name on here is Skunked.

Skunked's H22
Engine: 94 USDM OBD1 H22A1 (stock compression)
Stock Head with Crower Stage 3's and +60 crower springs and TI retainers
Skunk Cam Gears
Removed Balancer Shaft Belt
H23 Manual Tensioner Conversion
Stock H22 manifold with removed butterfly valves
Blocked EGR Exh Port (blocked in head)
OBX Header (removed flex pipe and added 4' of 2.25 pipe, open)
255 Walboro fuel pump
RC 370cc injectors
AEM FPR
Chipped P28 (skunkworks chip)
Fields VTEC/Fuel Controller
Custom Intake (AEM/Home Depot/Custom Scoop)
MSD 6AL w/2step & blaster Coil
Trans: USDM M2F4 (stock open diff)



Even he didn't get to 210. Kinda wierd, I thought if you could hit 200whp on a jdm h22 with just i/h/e and tuning you should be able to eek out more than 10 hp with a fully upgraded valvetrain and cams. I guess what is really needed is to bump the compresion as well to really see the gains from those stage 3 cams. Ofcourse a lil polishing wouldn't hurt either.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94Vtecluder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those numbers are horrible for those mods. People make 200WHP with JDM H22's with i/h(smsp/rmf)/e and hondata.</TD></TR></TABLE>
200whp on 10.6 compression with cams that were made for a ported head and high compression seems damn good to me. Also the headers listed above are a big stepup from his megan header. Hmm about a 600-800 dollar, 10+ whp stepup.


Modified by matix at 2:02 AM 1/31/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by matix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> 200whp on 10.6 compression with cams that were made for a ported head and high compression seems damn good to me. Also the headers listed above are a big stepup from his megan header. Hmm about a 600-800 dollar, 10+ whp stepup.


Modified by matix at 2:02 AM 1/31/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>x2
But with more tuning I think it could wield a little higher numbers.

 

first off I personally think those are pretty good numbers, and i could prolly get some more with more tuning but I mentioned that it is leaning out up high cause it runs out of fuel. I have a fuel pressure reg. on there and even that doesnt help that much. I need bigger injectors and a fuel pump then I'll probably go back.

and i got rid of the secondaries inside of the intake manifold

 

That dyno graph above with the stage 3 cams and open OBX header.

I make 220whp (SAE) now with the Crower 3's and a DTR header. It was tuned on the OBX header and not the DTR so I know there is more in it.

Still stock USDM block with the exception of the cams and valvetrain (yes stock compression matix )


Modified by skunked at 9:28 AM 1/31/2006


Modified by skunked at 2:46 PM 1/31/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Still stock USDM block with the exception of the cams and valvetrain (yes stock compression matix )


Modified by skunked at 9:28 AM 1/31/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats some awesome power. It kinda makes me wanna sell my crower stage2's for some stage3s. I would also have 11:1 compression to go along with them. You think i would gain some decent power swapping in stage 3s for the stage 2's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That dyno graph above with the stock cams and open OBX header.

I make 220whp (SAE) now with the Crower 3's and a DTR header. It was tuned on the OBX header and not the DTR so I know there is more in it.

Still stock USDM block with the exception of the cams and valvetrain (yes stock compression matix )


Modified by skunked at 9:28 AM 1/31/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow so that dyno is of stock cams? Stock valvetrain too? Why did you list the mods then if that wasn't it?

I'd imagine now you could be around 235ish with that new header and tuning. Maybe slap in some type s pistons and a spoon headgasket or something and then you could be making some serious power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94Vtecluder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow so that dyno is of stock cams? Stock valvetrain too? Why did you list the mods then if that wasn't it?

I'd imagine now you could be around 235ish with that new header and tuning. Maybe slap in some type s pistons and a spoon headgasket or something and then you could be making some serious power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry your right, the Tech 3 dyno is the crower 3's and upgraded springs and retainers. When I first made that thread it had the stock motor, then about 6-7 months later I updated the info with the cams and the Tech3 graph shown above.
199/164 STD on the stock internals
215/155 SAE with cams and OBX header (open)
220/155 SAE with same casm and DTR header (open and untuned)

Sorry for the confusion guys.

 

keep in mind these are real HP numbers not DYNOJET fudged numbers.

if you want to know what it would put down on a dynojet add 15% to that 200Hp which will put you right at 230Hp like you guys are saying.

you always have to know what type of dyno the car is being tested on. a dynapak will also yield higher numbers because there are no wheels and tires to rob torque from getting to the roll.

as for the rpm, it was leaning out to almost 14:1 at 8000rpm, so until he gats new injectors this is what we have.

 

thats hearsay. He cant make 230whp on a dynojet until he actually dynos on one.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickeng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">keep in mind these are real HP numbers not DYNOJET fudged numbers.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what dyno is real HP?

 

im gonna take a guess at dynapak or dynodynamics

 

It seems many of us keep forgetting that a dyno (short for dynamometer) measures change in output--from the root word "dynamic"

An example: Dyno #1 isn't necessarily meant to measure how much horsepower you're making over your buddy's hp numbers that he got on Dyno #2. It is meant to show the gain (or loss) over your previous mods. It measures how much your horsepower and torque have changed since the last run.

A ambient temp difference of 20 degrees and 20% humidity can give you dyno numbers that are 3-4 hp off on a motorcycle. I can't even imagine how far they can be off on a 200hp+ car...

Didn't you ever wonder why horsepower numbers from the manufacturers are (almost) always in 5hp increments? It's because they fudge their own dyno numbers to get the readings they want. This is why they've recently come out with SAE "Certified" horsepower. This is meant to standardize manufacturer's dynos so they are all calibrated the same and run under the same conditions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The_Sober &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems many of us keep forgetting that a dyno (short for dynamometer) measures change in output--from the root word "dynamic"

An example: Dyno #1 isn't necessarily meant to measure how much horsepower you're making over your buddy's hp numbers that he got on Dyno #2. It is meant to show the gain (or loss) over your previous mods. It measures how much your horsepower and torque have changed since the last run.

A ambient temp difference of 20 degrees and 20% humidity can give you dyno numbers that are 3-4 hp off on a motorcycle. I can't even imagine how far they can be off on a 200hp+ car...

Didn't you ever wonder why horsepower numbers from the manufacturers are (almost) always in 5hp increments? It's because they fudge their own dyno numbers to get the readings they want. This is why they've recently come out with SAE "Certified" horsepower. This is meant to standardize manufacturer's dynos so they are all calibrated the same and run under the same conditions. </TD></TR></TABLE>

EXACTLY!!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickeng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">keep in mind these are real HP numbers not DYNOJET fudged numbers.

if you want to know what it would put down on a dynojet add 15% to that 200Hp which will put you right at 230Hp like you guys are saying.

you always have to know what type of dyno the car is being tested on. a dynapak will also yield higher numbers because there are no wheels and tires to rob torque from getting to the roll.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would love to show you the 140-150whp graphs of stock usdm and jdm h22's on RLZ's dynapack, maybe then you will shut your mouth... The only thing you can really do is go on gains...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So what dyno is real HP?</TD></TR></TABLE>

what you get from dyno's which use the physics formulas with proper inertia factors and weather correction.

DYNOmite, SuperFlow, Mustang, AVL, Froud and others. They all report what is measured where the tire contacts the roll.

DynaPak also reports the correct HP measured, but at the hub. This will tend to give you higher HP numbers becasue there are HP losses from the hub the point where the tire contacts the roller.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats hearsay. He cant make 230whp on a dynojet until he actually dynos on one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The DYNOJET fudge factor is a FACT. Mark Dobeck the creater and former owner of DYNOJET spills exactly what the fudge facter is in the latest issue of HotRod Mag.

I have actually taken the data points for a dynojet and calculated a 15% fudge factor on a 180HP car and 9% fudge factor on a 500HP car.


The right chassis dyno is a good way to see what your really putting to the ground. I can switch from 3rd to 4th and see, within 1-5hp, the same same numbers. This is because the inertia compensations and formulas are correct.
FYI: HP should not change from gear to gear. Of course you must take into consideration that is in an ideal situation and there are gear to gear fiction losses and bearing losses which change due to rpm and or applied torque, but they are minimal (i.e. 1-5HP). Try doing that on a dynojet.

 

i still say that some magical calculation does not mean that you make that much horsepower. Put it on a dynojet, then when you make 230whp you can say that. But until then, its a 200hp motor. The numbers really arent that important tho. As long as its a healthy motor,curves are good, and you were able to administer the best tune possible....then thats all that matters. So many people base how good a product is on peak numbers, when in fact its not peak numbers the REALLY matter.

 

which dyno do you have at your shop jeff?

 

I think if you truly want to know how much whp you have, you would have to approach the situation scientifically...

take your car to 5 different dynos, measure the whp, then average them. Statistically speaking, you would have a better reading of your whp than if you only measured it at one.

 

what your car actually puts down really doesnt even matter.....the only way a dyno can be used as bragging rights is if you put your competitor onto it right after you and pull...then you can have a direct comparison

take your racing to the track, like blake said, peak numbers and all dont mean ****, its the shape of the curve that matters