converting my h22a to a manual tensioner from a h23. i took all parts from my left-over h23. i used the thread found here

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=549516

only when i go to put the timing belt on, it doesnt fit. i mean its too short. i heard that it will be a tight fit but what the hell? please help as i wanna get this damn motor together already.

 

i wish i could help ya...i still dont know why the manual is better.

 

Yes, it's VERY tight. I did the manual swap on my H22, and I just did one on another one this past weekend. It took two of us to get the timing belt on because it's so damn tight. It'll fit, it just takes a lot of work. Much more than if you used an autotensioner.

 

you can get a little more play out of the tensioner if you dont use the bracket bolted to the oil pump w/ 2 12mms. w/ bracket in place the tensioner only swings down so far until it hits the 12mm bolt. w/ out the bracket the bolt wont stick out as far, tensioner wont hit it.

 

Did it hapen to anyone, that the automatic tensioner would actually fail?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ludecz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did it hapen to anyone, that the automatic tensioner would actually fail?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, I've already replaced 3 or 4 autotensioners that were making noise and 1 that completely failed (it didn't even extend when I removed it) causing the timing belt to jump 3 teeth.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Missing Gears &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can get a little more play out of the tensioner if you dont use the bracket bolted to the oil pump w/ 2 12mms. w/ bracket in place the tensioner only swings down so far until it hits the 12mm bolt. w/ out the bracket the bolt wont stick out as far, tensioner wont hit it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You talking about this bracket?



If so, you need to run it.

 

yes/ that bracket w/ 2 12s holding it in place.

no need to run that bracket. we have several h series running now w/ out them. daily driven and drag setups.

the only purpose for that bracket is so you can put a 10mm in it and tighten down and keep tension on timming belt while loosening the 14mm to reposition or replace the balance shaft belt by itself. thats it, serves no other purpose.


yes, auto tensioners do fail. honda dealers see this all the time, it is a common problem. i have seen SEVERAL while i was at the dealer, and still see them alot now. the new auto tensioners are supposed to be redesigned and better, but i would still recommend the manual tensioner.

 

Another thing that is helpful, is don't put it all the way on the gears until it is actually around them all. Make sense? Slide it on each of the lower gears, just enough to keep it from pulling off, and then once you have it around all of them, slide it all the way on. This will give you a little more working room, but like has been said, it is very tight!

 

How do they fail exactly? Does the spring inside break, or does the screw itself break?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How do they fail exactly? Does the spring inside break, or does the screw itself break?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the original on my new engine was starting to fail when i got it..the tbelt was rubbing up against the balance belt adjuster due to lack of tension...my pops and i examined it closely and found it blew out the oil seal in it and lost almost all the oil in it...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skrewdlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Another thing that is helpful, is don't put it all the way on the gears until it is actually around them all. Make sense? Slide it on each of the lower gears, just enough to keep it from pulling off, and then once you have it around all of them, slide it all the way on. This will give you a little more working room, but like has been said, it is very tight! </TD></TR></TABLE>

word..did the exact same thing...and it took my dad and i both to get it on..by oneself it can be a bitch!! ALSO... with 2 people working on it you can put the belt on while your helper pushes the tensioner down with a screwdriver...if you can push the tensioner down all the way until the bolt butts up against the end of the slot then the belt goes on a little easier

as far as the bracket goes...technically you really dont need to run it, but it sure gives me more piece of mind...esp. with adjusting the bal shaft belt b/c it doesnt seem to take up its slack as nicey as an auto-tensioner equipped h22. and then its also kinda a fail-safe in the event something random would cause the spring to come off or something..btw make sure the spring ends arent able to come off easily, bend the ends slightly with some pliers

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How do they fail exactly? Does the spring inside break, or does the screw itself break?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the biggest problems withthe auto tensioner is that it is a one way tensioning device, meaning that once it pushed out to provide more tension it does not back off unless manually taken apart and backed off which requires the whole reseting of the timing belt.

basically in high hp applications or apps with after market cams there is alot more timing belt slap. when the timing belt slaps it goes from loose to to tentioned very quickly, it is during these loose periods that the auto tensioner "tightens" up and puts more strain on the timing belt and itself. With the added stress the belt is now too tight and the tentioner is forced to hold a tension to great, one or the other eventually fails.. belt snaps of auto tentioner craps out.

not to mention the oil seals failing like above^^ , they just arn't the greatest choice

auto tensioner is ok for a bone stock motor but, add any upgrades and i recommend the manual tensioner.

 

So once the manuel tensioner is on there is no reason to tighten it since it is so tight?

 

yea theres a proper tightening sequence for manual tensioners..when you get the belt on then there Will be slack..(its just tight when you have to initially strech it to get it on b/c when you installl it you not just pushing it foward onto the gears..if you know what im saying..)

 

did anybody left alone the balance pulleys or they took it out? I took it out and he said that's the reason why you don't have too much oil for your vtec. He claims that the balance pulleys help shoot up oil to the head and thus balancing out your motor. Sounds to be true, but that didn't answer why my timing belt snap. I thought it was the h23manual tensioner.

 

i left my balance shafts in and cut off the front one after the seal, and made a block off plate for the rear. you can take them out but i would spin the bearings around in the journals to cover the oil holes so you dont loose pressure.

 

No, there is a procedure to set the tension. I usually set the tension per the Helm's manual, then reset the tension after a few thousand miles (the belt will stretch slightly).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Missing Gears &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i left my balance shafts in and cut off the front one after the seal, and made a block off plate for the rear. you can take them out but i would spin the bearings around in the journals to cover the oil holes so you dont loose pressure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I also spin the bearings to block the hole. without doing this and removing the shafts you lose tons of oil pressure.

Its probably easier for most people to just leave them in though unless you got the block all tore apart.

 

WOW....then i probably didn't read instrustions.....damn!!...i just thought i didn't need it so i left it alone and i think i took out the pulleys and stuff.....so my reason why i don't have vtec is probably cuz of low oil pressure.....do you agree..if so yes or no....thanks?