I recently posted this on a local board, but it degraded quickly to an e-***** shootout with everyone defending and advocating what they have and run.

I have an itr powered hatch with an itr swap + upgraded cams, bolt ons, etc and ATS 4.9, ATS LSD, and itr 1,2,3,4,5, tranny.

My friend has a k20 swap from an RSX S in his eg, and is looking to autox possibly do some hpde's. He currently makes 200whp with the most basic bolt-ons and k-pro base tune.

I am watching his build very closely, as in the future I can see myself going for a k-swap. In the meantime, I have already gone with a 2.1L buildup and have yet to put it in. I also have an ats 1,3,4,5 gearset to install for the sheer stupidity of it all. So I did some calculations online and compared the craziest k series tranny I could find to the craziest ATS tranny buildup.

I took the highest rpm I felt each motor could rev to safely on stock valvetrain.

I know that there are going to be conflicting opinions, but am sure we can have a worthwhile discussion on this subject:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

K20R tranny with ATS final drive:

Gear Ratio Final MPH & RPM @ 80mph
MPH
1 - 3.266 - 17.86 - 33.6 - 20495
2 - 2.13 - 10.78 - 55.6 - 12367
3 - 1.517 - 7.69 - 78.0 - 8825
4 - 1.212 - 6.12 - 97.9 - 7025
5 - .972 - 4.91 - 122.2 - 5632
6 - .78 - 3.95 - 151.9 - 4529
R - 3.583 - 18.11 - 33.1 - 20785
Axle ratio - 5.062
tire diameter - 23.44in

source for k series gearing:
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t...ghlight=gearing
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B18c5 tranny with ATS final drive and ats 1,2,3,4,5 gearset:

Gear Ratio Final MPH @ 9200 RPM @ 80 MPH

1 - 3.077 - 15.18 - 42.2 - 17423
2 - 2.105 - 10.35 - 62.0 - 11879
3 - 1.652 - 8.13 - 78.9 - 9334
4 - 1.308 - 6.46 - 99.3 - 7410
5 - 1.033 - 5.08 - 126.3 - 5827
Axle ratio - 4.929
tire diameter - 23.44in


source: http://www.a-t-s-usa.com/ats-products/ats-...omparison.shtml

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AND

online calculator so you can enjoy your own tranny comparo's:

http://www.xse.com/leres/bin/gearratio?tit...umference=78.35

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

But kENzoR don't you rock the mega E-*****?

 

On another point b series are no longer produced so there are a finite supply of them.
point two the k series is lighter then the b series..
I have nothing but b's now but i am watching...

 

B series were last made in 2000 for production cars, so they are still being made if the 10 year rule is true.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rene M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On another point b series are no longer produced so there are a finite supply of them.
point two the k series is lighter then the b series..
I have nothing but b's now but i am watching...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why are they no long produced? I thought you had to have the parts available for at least 10 years after production. That would make brand spanking new B parts from Honda available until 2011.

That K looks pretty nice. It will accelerate faster, have a higher top speed, AND allow for a fairly freindly highway cruise......especially if you are going 70 MPH instead of 80.

I'm starting to hate all the advantages of the K b/c I'm just starting to like my B.

 

Well for HPDEs your ATS equipped B-series tranny seems to be a bit short in gearing on the top end. I know Bradstard was getting well over 126mph on the straights at Robeling.

Also are you planning to rev your 2.1L to 9200 rpm? I assume you won't be (although j00 are probably crazy enough to do so). Well say you do rev it up to 8000rpm, now you top speed is limited to an even lower 107.62 mph.

For HPDE: K-series with 6 gears own j00r ATS B-series tranny due to more usable gearing.

For Autocross where top speed is not a factor, your ATS B-series Tranny seems that it would rawk **** especially with your current rev limit! K-series you could say it was at an disadvantage depending on the course but it's possible you might end up shifting between 2nd and 3rd more whereas with the B-series tranny you can stay in 2nd.

ATS B-series tranny FTW for Autocross.

Just my 2 cents R0ck3r.

 

good points.

For my built B, I don't plan on testing it much at too high of rpm, but balancing to 12k rpm is just insurance.

I would shift around 9200 when needed - lower most of the time, and occasionally closer to 10k. The build of the motor is focused on being able to rev it out and make lots of tq as high in the rpm band as possible.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88 rex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why are they no long produced? I thought you had to have the parts available for at least 10 years after production. That would make brand spanking new B parts from Honda available until 2011.

That K looks pretty nice. It will accelerate faster, have a higher top speed, AND allow for a fairly freindly highway cruise......especially if you are going 70 MPH instead of 80.

I'm starting to hate all the advantages of the K b/c I'm just starting to like my B. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes as replacement parts but not production.

 

How about a ATS gear set w/ 4.4 final drive in the b-series trans?

 

Taken from ATS:

Integra Type R U.S. spec & Civic Si stock final (4.4) & ATS Close 3rd, 4th, 5th
RPM Gear Mile/h @Shift up RPM goes to

1st 8,000 3.2310 38.55 5200
2nd 8,000 2.1050 59.17 6200
3rd 8,000 1.6520 75.39 6300
4th 8,000 1.3080 95.22 6300
5th 8,000 1.0330 120.56

 

on that site, yasu (ats usa) uses 8k rpm max.

I am well over that (as most are) safely with 9200 and stock valvetrain.

I've known some people who use the jdm final (4.785) and the ats gearset - depending on the road course.

Road Atlanta, I believe they use the 4.4 and ats gearset, but courses with shorter straights, they use the 4.7 and ats gearset. They have like 5 different trannies they swap out depending on the course they're racing at that weekend.

I really like little talladega, and think I could use the 4.9 and ats gearset there for some good times.

What is Roebling Road like? What are people gettin up to there?

 

Yes, at Roebling I was approaching my 9200 RPM rev limiter in 5th on the front straight. The needle was showing right at 150mph on the stock speedo and that is with the stock USDM gear set and the ATS 4.9 FD. I've had no problems on MAM or CMP with top speed. I also have not been on Road Atlanta yet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am well over that (as most are) safely with 9200 and stock valvetrain.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm....my tuner recommended that I stay at the stock rev limit with stock valvetrain stating that problems could arise. Untrue? Just curious.

Good thread BTW

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hmmm....my tuner recommended that I stay at the stock rev limit with stock valvetrain stating that problems could arise. Untrue? Just curious.

Good thread BTW </TD></TR></TABLE>


It is in your tuners interest to make that recommendation - he doesn't want to blow your motor and neither do you.

However, consider this fact: the mugen ecu has a 9200 rpm rev limiter (iirc) and the mugen valve springs are nothing more than oem itr ones.

Feel free to draw your own conclusions here.

Many of us are running 500-600rpm higher rev limiters with stock valvesprings. I have been for a couple of years on my itr, and I have toda spec a cams in it.

 

^^^^^I see. I just thought it was a big NO-NO to do so as opposed to a preference. Good to know. Thanks for the little tid-bit of info.