Attn cam gurus - Toda spec Cs
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,720
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From: San Diego, CA
Attn cam gurus - Toda spec Cs
Ok, I was told you guys were the experts on this sorta thing.
I've been searching for the past hour and a half and come up with a few conclusions and questions. First my list of relevant mods:
B18C1
I/E
Skunk2 ECU program/intake manifold (but leaning towards Hondata ECU)
Now my list of conclusions:
1. Don't mill head
2. Don't get thinner head gasket
3. Only use TODA pistons or different stock pistons (i.e. CTR)
4. Upgraded fuel components are necessary
5. Some headwork is a must
6. TODA valvetrain components are necessary
7. Header with 2.5 collecter is best
8. Spec C cams are pointless without tuning (which will come, calm down)
9. Bottom end will need work
10. New rods will be needed
Questions:
1. As far as upgrading fuel components, what exactly would be best? I'm leaning towards Hondata for the ECU but which injectors? Which pump? Will the Type R's suit me?
2. Will it be possible for me to still be able to run pump gas?
3. What's the deal with getting oversized valves?
4. Someone told me there could be piston/valve clearance issues with the CTR pistons. This is the first I've heard - any thoughts?
5. Anything else I need to take care of?
I'm not trying to stick the Spec C cams into my current setup - I'm trying to gather up all the info so I can get started on getting what I need/can get now. I want to do this right the first time.
Thanks in advance guys - don't flame cause it's not a B18C5 - we're all Honda here
I've been searching for the past hour and a half and come up with a few conclusions and questions. First my list of relevant mods:
B18C1
I/E
Skunk2 ECU program/intake manifold (but leaning towards Hondata ECU)
Now my list of conclusions:
1. Don't mill head
2. Don't get thinner head gasket
3. Only use TODA pistons or different stock pistons (i.e. CTR)
4. Upgraded fuel components are necessary
5. Some headwork is a must
6. TODA valvetrain components are necessary
7. Header with 2.5 collecter is best
8. Spec C cams are pointless without tuning (which will come, calm down)
9. Bottom end will need work
10. New rods will be needed
Questions:
1. As far as upgrading fuel components, what exactly would be best? I'm leaning towards Hondata for the ECU but which injectors? Which pump? Will the Type R's suit me?
2. Will it be possible for me to still be able to run pump gas?
3. What's the deal with getting oversized valves?
4. Someone told me there could be piston/valve clearance issues with the CTR pistons. This is the first I've heard - any thoughts?
5. Anything else I need to take care of?
I'm not trying to stick the Spec C cams into my current setup - I'm trying to gather up all the info so I can get started on getting what I need/can get now. I want to do this right the first time.
Thanks in advance guys - don't flame cause it's not a B18C5 - we're all Honda here
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,013
Likes: 0
From: Moorestown, NJ, USA
Re: Attn cam gurus - Toda spec Cs (hybridreams)
Ok, I was told you guys were the experts on this sorta thing.
I've been searching for the past hour and a half and come up with a few conclusions and questions. First my list of relevant mods:
B18C1
I/E
Skunk2 ECU program/intake manifold (but leaning towards Hondata ECU)
Now my list of conclusions:
1. Don't mill head best way is to do pistons for compression..not mill...but milling isn't a horrible thing either
2. Don't get thinner head gasket who says?
3. Only use TODA pistons or different stock pistons (i.e. CTR) nah. not true. its in the valve reliefs of the pistons and combustion chamber shape
4. Upgraded fuel components are necessary yes
5. Some headwork is a must if you call valve springs etc headwork..then yes. otherwise headwork is a good thing to do but not a must
6. TODA valvetrain components are necessary i'd certainly use toda valve springs for sure
7. Header with 2.5 collecter is best seems to be
8. Spec C cams are pointless without tuning (which will come, calm down) calmed down
9. Bottom end will need work i'm using stock itr crank but in my opinion strong rods are a good thing to do...just sell your itr rods if thats what you have
10. New rods will be needed #9
Questions:
1. As far as upgrading fuel components, what exactly would be best? I'm leaning towards Hondata for the ECU but which injectors? Which pump? Will the Type R's suit me? type r pump and injectors aren't enough. go with at least a 255 pump and injector size depends on other issues besides just the spec C's
2. Will it be possible for me to still be able to run pump gas? yes
3. What's the deal with getting oversized valves? this one is a debate
4. Someone told me there could be piston/valve clearance issues with the CTR pistons. This is the first I've heard - any thoughts? steve?
5. Anything else I need to take care of? i'll let others chime in now
I'm not trying to stick the Spec C cams into my current setup - I'm trying to gather up all the info so I can get started on getting what I need/can get now. I want to do this right the first time.
Thanks in advance guys - don't flame cause it's not a B18C5 - we're all Honda here
I've been searching for the past hour and a half and come up with a few conclusions and questions. First my list of relevant mods:
B18C1
I/E
Skunk2 ECU program/intake manifold (but leaning towards Hondata ECU)
Now my list of conclusions:
1. Don't mill head best way is to do pistons for compression..not mill...but milling isn't a horrible thing either
2. Don't get thinner head gasket who says?
3. Only use TODA pistons or different stock pistons (i.e. CTR) nah. not true. its in the valve reliefs of the pistons and combustion chamber shape
4. Upgraded fuel components are necessary yes
5. Some headwork is a must if you call valve springs etc headwork..then yes. otherwise headwork is a good thing to do but not a must
6. TODA valvetrain components are necessary i'd certainly use toda valve springs for sure
7. Header with 2.5 collecter is best seems to be
8. Spec C cams are pointless without tuning (which will come, calm down) calmed down
9. Bottom end will need work i'm using stock itr crank but in my opinion strong rods are a good thing to do...just sell your itr rods if thats what you have
10. New rods will be needed #9
Questions:
1. As far as upgrading fuel components, what exactly would be best? I'm leaning towards Hondata for the ECU but which injectors? Which pump? Will the Type R's suit me? type r pump and injectors aren't enough. go with at least a 255 pump and injector size depends on other issues besides just the spec C's
2. Will it be possible for me to still be able to run pump gas? yes
3. What's the deal with getting oversized valves? this one is a debate
4. Someone told me there could be piston/valve clearance issues with the CTR pistons. This is the first I've heard - any thoughts? steve?
5. Anything else I need to take care of? i'll let others chime in now
I'm not trying to stick the Spec C cams into my current setup - I'm trying to gather up all the info so I can get started on getting what I need/can get now. I want to do this right the first time.
Thanks in advance guys - don't flame cause it's not a B18C5 - we're all Honda here
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,199
Likes: 0
From: South Jersey, USA
Re: Attn cam gurus - Toda spec Cs (hybridreams)
-CTR pistons in a gsr will yield a high compression ratio.
That would go with any high lift duration cams. (JUN or Honda-tech's beloved TODA)
-injectors 310cc is perfect for 1.8L allmotor applications with a FPR and VAFC
or you can hondata that. Choose one to your liking so you will not detonate with the high compression. a FPR will be sufficient during your buildup, then upgrade more later thats unless your doing everything at once.
-everyone on the board runs pump gas. Who can afford 5$ a gallon. (except trackonly cars)
-to me oversized valves aren't really important, im really not sure if they do increase the velocity air travels into the combustion chamber. I'd get ITR intake valves, when you do your valvetrain or when you do a port&polish, add that to the list.
-header 2.5 $500+ or $1000+ (hytechs) but you can still get 200whp with a
jdm 4-1.
i dont' know about that im no expert at that. Unless you advance your cams to much probably.
nothing wrong with a b18c1, i think its the best all around motor.
i'll help you out. TTT
That would go with any high lift duration cams. (JUN or Honda-tech's beloved TODA)
-injectors 310cc is perfect for 1.8L allmotor applications with a FPR and VAFC
or you can hondata that. Choose one to your liking so you will not detonate with the high compression. a FPR will be sufficient during your buildup, then upgrade more later thats unless your doing everything at once.
-everyone on the board runs pump gas. Who can afford 5$ a gallon. (except trackonly cars)
-to me oversized valves aren't really important, im really not sure if they do increase the velocity air travels into the combustion chamber. I'd get ITR intake valves, when you do your valvetrain or when you do a port&polish, add that to the list.
-header 2.5 $500+ or $1000+ (hytechs) but you can still get 200whp with a
jdm 4-1.
Someone told me there could be piston/valve clearance issues with the CTR pistons. This is the first I've heard - any thoughts?
nothing wrong with a b18c1, i think its the best all around motor.
i'll help you out. TTT
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
From: Woodbridge, NJ, USA
Re: Attn cam gurus - Toda spec Cs (hybridreams)
not sure why you're making it so difficult, but here are some answers ...
you can use the ctr pistons with itr rods or gsr rods and even mill the head about 10 thousandths of an inch and still run pump gas with spec B or C camshafts...
if you choose to go with aftermarket rods such as eagles, crowers,pauters, etc. then get floating pin pistons like endyn, toda, etc.
There is a ton of clearance with spec C camshafts and stock valves, problems only come in when people decide to go 1mm oversized on both int and exh valves without opening up valve reliefs.
Other things to consider are if using stock itr/gsr/ls rods and therefore stock rod bolts, take into account rod stretch clearance when milling head as I recommended above. Generally, people upgrade to arp rod bolts and have good clearance relative to the amount of stretch at high rpm. If using aftermarket rods and pistons, try to get yourself biased to those manufactures who use stock clearance valve reliefs on the pistons. And finally, always follow the Toda cam degree specs and degree cams accordingly, there is a good 5-10 more hp from degreeing as toda recommends.
And finally, the most important mod is your header choice for the spec Cs and Bs... Toda and HyTech are my preferences based on my experience hands-on.
hth,
Greg
you can use the ctr pistons with itr rods or gsr rods and even mill the head about 10 thousandths of an inch and still run pump gas with spec B or C camshafts...
if you choose to go with aftermarket rods such as eagles, crowers,pauters, etc. then get floating pin pistons like endyn, toda, etc.
There is a ton of clearance with spec C camshafts and stock valves, problems only come in when people decide to go 1mm oversized on both int and exh valves without opening up valve reliefs.
Other things to consider are if using stock itr/gsr/ls rods and therefore stock rod bolts, take into account rod stretch clearance when milling head as I recommended above. Generally, people upgrade to arp rod bolts and have good clearance relative to the amount of stretch at high rpm. If using aftermarket rods and pistons, try to get yourself biased to those manufactures who use stock clearance valve reliefs on the pistons. And finally, always follow the Toda cam degree specs and degree cams accordingly, there is a good 5-10 more hp from degreeing as toda recommends.
And finally, the most important mod is your header choice for the spec Cs and Bs... Toda and HyTech are my preferences based on my experience hands-on.
hth,
Greg
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