i was thinking about buying a civic SI because i've wanted one for ever.. but thats not the topic here. I was looking into getting a 2002-04 civic SI and my friend said that the motor is "weak" and that the b16a2 is better so i should just stick with a 1999-2000 civic SI is that his opinion or is there really something wrong with the k20a2? i like the 02-04 si look, i think its sharp.

 

its a k20a3 for the SI model and nothing wrong with it. i mean, it doesnt have "true" vtec like the B series or the k20a2 block but its still a great motor to boost b/c of its low compression

 

I don't even know where to start. How about 515 hp COMPLETELY stock K20a2 w/ a GT35R. As in stock "Cast" pistons and rods.

Or 454 hp completely stock K20a2 w/ a Rev Hard turbo kit and GT35R. Again stock pistons and rods. Pushing this for over two years.

These motors are pretty tough. To be honest there are two problems that I have run across that can't be fixed for cheap.

1) Oil starvation at high revs. Everybody thinks that the rod bearings in the A2 are weak when in actuality it is oil starvation that leads to spun bearings. Moral of the story need a new pan and upgraded pump system. Now most of these problems occur with people auto x'ing. I guarantee somebody drag racing would not run into these problems because the time your are staying at high revs is much less.

2) Transmission. People have complained of worn syncros specifically in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. I have never had this problem but many have. Cryotreating the syncros and gear sets would be an excellent solution

All in all the K series is a vast improvement over the B series. And anybody that argues that is pretty stupid. The B series are great don't get me wrong but I could name hundreds of reasons why the K is superior. Number one in my book would be the head. The K series head is unbelievable. People have said that any B series head ported and polished still does not flow as good as the K series. Are you convinced yet?

Okay I'm done, I've ranted enough. Your friend is retarted. Maybe he would have had a better argument with a B18 motor.

 

And as stated before the 2002-2004 SI's have the A3. And that is a whole different argument. I still don't know if I would go as far as saying that the B16 is superior.

The new SI's are what you want, they get real vtec not that economy ****.

 

what is this "true" v-tec i mean its varible timing how can it be fake? or not true? sorry for my n00bness but i've havnt been into hondas for 2 or more years and i know about b16 and lower mainly 95 lowers models.

 

"True VTEC" ??? You mean the K series doesnt have the OLD SCHOOL VTEC.
K Series > B16 buddy

 

He was asking what the difference between an A3 and an A2 was in terms of "true vtec".

The reason people call the K20A3 "non true" or "*****" vtec is because of this:

At low RPM, the VTEC system effectively forces the engine to operate as a 12-valve engine - one of the intake valves does not open fully, thus decreasing fuel consumption. At 2200RPM, the VTEC system engages the 2nd intake valve, effectively resuming operation as a normal 16-valve engine. There are no high-RPM performance cam profiles and thus this engine is tuned to balance fuel economy and power, rather than provide pure performance. On the intake cam, there is the VTC mechanism which basically is an automatic self-adjusting cam gear used to continuously optimize the valve overlap for all RPM ranges. This being a "*****" vtec system - and not a true DOHC VTEC system - is the reason the K20A3 redlines at a measly 6800RPM, while the K20A2 is able to rev all the way to 7900RPM.

There it is in a nutshell.

 

is there anyway to change that? and make it more power and economy? i mean its not like im gonna be all out racing, this is gonna be my daily driver/fun ride but it would be good to be able to get all that i can out from the a3. and njslvrtypes you've help out alot. is it possible to change the topic slightly as in i found a 02' si with 30k miles for about 13000 is that good or not? in your opinion

 

Well if your not going for crazy performance the A3 will be fine. A couple bolt ons and you got a quick, reliable daily driver.

But if you are looking to boost or heavily mod in the future I would suggest the A2. To heavily mod an A3 makes no sense. It would be much cheaper to purchase an A2 and swap it into your SI than turn an A3 into an A2. Trust me, there are a lot of differences beside the "true" vtec like I stated before. In the bottom end alone, the crank, rods, pistons, and lack of oil squirters are different.

On another not, thats not a bad price for an 02. Pretty low mileage also. Check the Blue Book value and work from there. I would also suggest, like I always do with a used car, take it to a mechanic for a leakdown and compression test. You never know with a Honda. There are too many performance parts on the market and stupid ricers that don't know how to use them.

All in all the A3 is a reliable and pretty quick motor. But if you have any doubts about going for more performance in the future, then step it up to the RSX Type S. You can get an 02 w/ the same mileage for a few grand more.

And other questions just shoot, good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AkuCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was thinking about buying a civic SI because i've wanted one for ever.. but thats not the topic here. I was looking into getting a 2002-04 civic SI and my friend said that the motor is "weak" and that the b16a2 is better so i should just stick with a 1999-2000 civic SI is that his opinion or is there really something wrong with the k20a2? i like the 02-04 si look, i think its sharp. </TD></TR></TABLE>

While the K series motors are nice there are quite a few differences from an K20a3 motor and a B16

First off the A3 motors are junk --- no one is buying them unless they blew their stock motor

B16's however (especially for thier size) are awesome motors when boosted

From the way your talking youll most likely keep them stock or close to it --- the EM1 is a much more classic ride than the EP3

Stock B16's have made 350+whp when tuned to the extreme edge

Many many B16 powered cars have run 11's on the stock block ---- I dont see or hear of any EP3's running 11's on stock blocks

The EM1 B16 powered car will be faster and as much as I love hatchies the EP3 just doesnt look as good as a clean lowered EM1

 

well as a added varible, im going to be going to school at uti(chicago) i gonna be driving about 50 miles from school and back, should i just lay off buying a new car and buy some american car just for school or should i get the car i want and just keep it im not gonna heavily mod the car i get i just want the most common items, the drop intake exhaust, and maybe a good sound system. for the civic..... for just getting an american car for school.

 

I own both the 00 Si and the 02 si, and I prefer the ep3 for many reasons. Yeah, they are quite weak in power, but their power are very comparable to the GSRs. They also have a superior chassis over the EM1. I suggest you test drive both and you'll see which car is better!

 

Oh yeah, and all that crap about the K20A3 being a junk motor is bullshit. Signal Auto boosted an A3 motor with stock internals and got really good results (375 whp). Plus, comparing a B16 powered car--commonly with a lighter chassis--to an ep3 is absurd. Of course, you're not going to run 11s with a heavier chassis, but you are capable!

 

yes the a3 has the "fake" vtec. But from what ive heard, you dont need to get the entire block to fix that. If you go with an rsx-s (a2) head, you basicly have the type s. Or you could go with a tsx head and get the poor-mans version of the new si. K20z-something-or-other. ep3 block with a tsx head......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by artificeexks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh yeah, and all that crap about the K20A3 being a junk motor is bullshit. Signal Auto boosted an A3 motor with stock internals and got really good results (375 whp). Plus, comparing a B16 powered car--commonly with a lighter chassis--to an ep3 is absurd. Of course, you're not going to run 11s with a heavier chassis, but you are capable!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bullshit huh?

Which EG owners are drooling for K20a3's? None of them

No one is going t waste their time with a K20a3 --- its junk

The K24 blocks are wanted as are the K20a2 heads --- the K24a2 motors are the motor of choice

Nowhere in those examples will you find anyone wanting a junk K20a3 motor unless they own an EP3 minivan and blew their motor up

show us a link to the Signal K20a3 build --- SInce HKS hit 380whp with a K24a2 on low boost it may be doable but on stock internals its a stretch

 

Whoa! I didn't mean to offend anyone, but i also think wasting your time on a k20a3 is stupid; but why waste your time on a usdm b16? Stock versus Stock, they are pretty much equal. Of course, no one would waste their time on a k20a3 (hell i think it's pointless) especially if u want a faster car cuz the whole point is building a faster car, right? However, to call the ep3 k20a3 a junk is like calling the em1 b16 a junk motor! I own both cars and IMO I think the factory ep3 is better overall cuz of the well built suspension, interior, and performance versus the factory em1

Heres the link to the Signal Auto Si, which truly has stock internals (cams, pistions, valves, etc.) on about 14psi using the GReddy TDO6-L2 custom fabricated by Signal Auto, which I thought was truly impossible. This was featured in Honda Tuning August 2005: CLICKY

SergEK I really didn't mean to offend you (I didn't even read your post above mine, though my friends call the k20a3 junk too) and I'm sorry if I did!

Modified by artificeexks at 7:58 PM 1/8/2006


Modified by artificeexks at 8:09 PM 1/8/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AkuCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bullshit huh?

Which EG owners are drooling for K20a3's? None of them

No one is going t waste their time with a K20a3 --- its junk

The K24 blocks are wanted as are the K20a2 heads --- the K24a2 motors are the motor of choice

Nowhere in those examples will you find anyone wanting a junk K20a3 motor unless they own an EP3 minivan and blew their motor up

show us a link to the Signal K20a3 build --- SInce HKS hit 380whp with a K24a2 on low boost it may be doable but on stock internals its a stretch
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What I meant was when comparing the factory b16a2 with the factory k20a3:
the b16a2 = the k20a3 in HP
the b16a2 &gt; the k20a3 in compression ratios (which i love so much in the b16a2)
the b16a2 has more potential in all-motor set-ups, but the k20a3 has lower compression, which is good for boosting!

So IMO (I mean mine alone) the b16a2 versus the k20a3 is almost the same except for the displacements, etc., etc. Overall, with the i-vtec technology (throttle response is awesome) the "STOCK" k20a3 is not much of a JUNK MOTOR vs. the "STOCK" b16a2. I still wouldn't waste my money on a k20a3 or a b16a2 cuz I'm also going with a k24 block with a k20a2 head and maybe boosting it!


Modified by artificeexks at 8:06 PM 1/8/2006

 

Making the HP on the dyno is one thing. It lasting as a DD is another.

 

that is so true