so while driving last night, the ignition seemingly cut out and i couldn't start the car back up...basically, it won't turn over. the starter is going and all, checked it earlier and i'm not getting spark. the DRL light has been coming on and when i try to start the battery and parking brake light come on..

any suggestions? please and thank you for help..

 

My 92 did the same thing 6 months ago at 265,000 miles, first time it left me on the side of the road in 13 years. Turned out to be the igniter (which I guess creates the spark) and the dealer had it fixed in an hour for $130. It didn't take them long to figure it out which leads me to believe it is a fairly common high-mileage failure. (Before they told me, I was guessing fuel pump).

igniter $80: http://www.prostreetonline.com...niter

heat sink $12: http://www.prostreetonline.com...+Sink

 

No spark and a sudden shut down would make me believe the ignitor or coil is the problem, You should be able to turn the key on and have battery power at the Black/yellow wire beside the dist. that means the ignition switch is okay

 

alright...now that i've replaced the ignition coil and the ignitor (or ICM, whatev), the car still won't start. for some reason i'm still not getting spark...i'm wondering if it could be any other part of the ignition system, distributor, wires maybe? i'm a noob at this...thank you for your help

 

Take the distributor cap off and have a designated person get it the car and crank it over.
Observe the distributor rotor.
If it doesn't go "round and round", congratulations, you're the proud owner of a 1lb broken Timing Belt.

IE: Starter Turns
Crankshaft Turns
Timing Belt no Turn
camshaft no Turn
Distributor no Turn
No Spark
Valve damage
Aarrrggg !

It might also be the main relay

P

 

i'll check it out right now...
as for lights on the dash, would anything come on? the charge, oil, and parking brake lights come on when the key is in...as well as the D4 light, which is flashing. and it's in park.

 

That would indicate the ignition switch is working, at least as far as powering the ECM (Service Engine Lamp) and powering the system indicators. At this point it doesn't point to the Ign switch YET.

P

 

alright...that's good to know
i'm a little glad to know that it isn't the timing belt, seeing as to how the rotor moves...could it be the rotor that's hampering progress? it looks a little worn out. especially since the car has about 326000 kms.

thank you for your help. it's most appreciated

 

Do you know how to get the CEL to flash the codes? Blue two wire plug behind passenger side kick panel. Stick a paperclip into the plug (to connect the two wires together) turn the key on, and it will flash code or codes. Long flashes for the ten spot short flashes for the one spot. Example: three long flashes and then two short flashes = code 32. If you get the code post it up, and we can help. It may give you, and us, an idea where to look next.

 

If the Distributor rotor hasn't been changed out for quite some time, this might be a good excuse for doing so. Just be careful that you don't drop the set screw in the process. (I actually advised a person in here that was trying to get his rotor out of the distributor since the prior owner epoxied it on (lost the set screw).

Once you get it off, and into a warm place you can take your time, look down the shaft hole. What you're looking far is any indications of arcing. It will be located directly under the center contact (outside) and will indicate on the inside by a blue haze (corona) effect left by the presence of high voltage. You may actually see a burn mark.

Although it sounds trivial, they have kept cars from starting.

P

 

the edge of the rotor itself appears to be burnt...well, the metal edge i mean.

also, i'd have checked the codes earlier but i don't have a code book...either way, here they are:

1
2
3
7
8
14

 

The edge of the rotor pointer will corrode and burn from normal operation. If the rotor passes inspection as far as no carbon tracks, high voltage coronas and burn-thru's, the contact can be filed smooth and cleaned; and the rotor returned to service.
As a side bar: One trick we learned to ensure a spark at the plug under marginal conditions was to take a new rotor and file .020" off the end of the pointer and install it.
Why?
It acted as a "Booster Gap" and would actually aide in firing both Gas and oil fouled plugs.
How?
During normal ignition, when the signal came for the coil to release it's energy; the charge to the plug actually rose gradually until it reached a critical point and jumped the plug gap. This happened very fast (measured in nano-seconds), so it seemed instantaneous. If there were fouled plugs, they would offer an imperfect path to ground and the gradually rising voltage would leak to ground and would not fire.
The booster gap would preclude this from happening. By inserting an air gap in the circuit, the voltage had nowhere to go but wait until it reached critical; at which point it jumped - firing the plug.
.Neat little bit of useful trivia.

As far as your codes: You've an OBD1 Engine Management System and I don't recognize what you're seeing. I'll see if I can scare something up.

P

 

interesting...

my apologies, i forgot to include that I had an OBD 1 EMS...a friend of mine has a codebook, but he's a little unavailable right now, otherwise i'd have already looked it up. i only know one out of the six, and that's code 14...idle air control valve.

once again, thank you for your help. i appreciate it much. have a wonderful christmas!

 

With those codes you have I'd have to ask what else has been unplugged or messed with? Has the wiring harness been hacked up? Is there a ground at the T-stat housing? The only code that relates to a 'no spark' problem is code 8 [TDC sensor] it's inside the dist. And oddly enough, no code that would cause a blinking D4 light...Hmmmmmm, is there more to the story?

 

An ECM suffering from Brain Flatulence?
I'm pulling from my GM/Jagua'r experience (Bosch based EFI systems) that the ECM could fail in two ways:
1) Brain Dead. No Codes at all
2) Multiple Unrelated codes

Also correct is thee suggestion or query about work performed on the harness
Loose Connections at the ECM?
Flood Car?

P

 

Codes:
1. not sure, maybe 0/2 sensor
2. 0/2 sensor
3. MAP sensor
7. Throttle position sensor
8. Top dead centre sensor
14. Idle air control valve
Wondering if there is one harness that has all these sensor wires included in it. Happy hunting.

 

Probably one of the two plugs for the ECM......

P

 

as far as the codes and the wiring harness go, nothing's been hacked up or anything...could be a loose connection, but i've honestly not touched the wiring harness. the only things i've messed around with on the car were the distributor and putting on a cold air intake.

seems to me that it's going into a local shop on tuesday to get completely checked out...can't wait to see everything that's gone south with it haha. i suppose it's just it's time.

thank you all for your help! i'd have replied back sooner, but being a n00b i can only replay 5 times in a 24hr period. but thank you again!

 

Don't fret the Noob thing, that will change shortly.
I think it will be found to be a common point of failure, such as an ecm plug or the ecm itself. I base my theory on the presumption that it's statistically impossible for all those components to give up the ghost all at once.

P

 

it went to a shop twice (i had it for a day and the same thing happened), and it was determined that the o2 sensor was to blame. somehow, one of the wires kept shorting out on the driveshaft (they said it was wrapped around the driveshaft actually) and the other was torn. along those lines at least...before that we thought it was the IAC valve, since it happened when i didn't let the car warm up enough and because of the fact that the ECU fuse (it was just a blown fuse) controls the IAC valve as well.

all i know is that it's been $450 worth of fixing in the past week. thank you for all your help.