From the guys that have been to this before, what do u highly recommend for front pads? im currently using Hawk HP Plus...but i have around 50% left of meat on them, maybe less, and according to rules, that will not pass....so for next pads, should i get the same, or is there something better out there. Everything else is stock brake wise on my itr.

Thanks in advance, and i did a search already, 0 results...so thats y im asking here.

 

Read -- > https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=766629

 

ahhh shiaatt how did i miss that! Awesome info in there, thanks alot

 

Brake pads:

If you can dedicate a set of Autozone rotors (maybe $25-30 apiece) and pads for the track, Cobalt Spec VR's or Carbotech XP9 or XP8 are awesome.

If not, Carbotech Panther+ or Cobalt GT Sports are good dual-purpose ones, and Porterfield R4S are good too.

The race pads are daily driveable, if you don't care at all about brake dust (really nasty ****).

My favorites are Spec VR's. http://www.cobaltfriction.com/ Also, to top it off, they are ITR EXPO SPONSORS. I always have them on my car and a spare set of new ones in the box.

Carbotech's are also widely regarded as awesome pads. I glazed my XP9's once (Turbocharged) and switched to Spec VR's. At least, I think they glazed, the friction level up front dropped dramatically and didn't recover. No one else seems to have that problem. http://www.carbotecheng.com/

For the Honda Challenge guys, these two are probably the most popular brands

Before I used either of those, I had Porterfield R4 pads, which were awesome, but the brake dust was ridiculously corrosive, screwed up the paint on my wheels and car. I also tried the R4S street/track compound, good pads too, survived a day of turbo abuse.

 

Chris.... .... .....

If the guy has to ask for assistance on brake pads, then don't you think VRs and XP8 or 9s might be a bit much?

What I'm saying it if he's that fast/good I'm sure he would have been using them or at least heard of them.

HE sounds like a good candidate for GTSports or Axxis Ultimates.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chris.... .... .....

HE sounds like a good candidate for GTSports or Axxis Ultimates.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

i have Axxis Ultimate. and it's more than enough pad for street.. and i am not really sure how they are at track.. OVIOUSLY it's better than stock.

i love my axxis ultimate too but i hate the break dust

 

They are fine pads for the beginner track people. I know cause they are what I used for a long time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chris.... .... .....

If the guy has to ask for assistance on brake pads, then don't you think VRs and XP8 or 9s might be a bit much?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No such thing as "too much brake pad"!

Plus, if he's a beginner in a somewhat-modded R, he's not only going to be reaching pretty high speeds on course, but he's also going to use his brakes too much.



Though, agreed, if he doesn't want to splurge for the second set of front rotors, Cobalt GT Sports (which I did recommend) or Panther+ are good choices. I never tried the Axxis Ultimates, they may be a good choice. The stock pads are crap, though (for anyone else reading that has stock pads, UPGRADE.)

Also, at some point, all of us had to ask for assistance on brake pads, and I'm glad I heard about the Carbotech/Cobalt lines of products.

 

So you guys are against hawk pads? Just cause im a beginner at this sport, doesnt mean i cant use better brakes....anyone will benefit from a better pad, whether ur new at this or not.

 

I'm not...

There are track pads and there are street pads, and most of the major brands make a variety of compounds including both types.

Track pads - which include Cobalt Spec VR, Carbotech XP8/XP9/XP10, Porterfield R4, and others - have several downsides that haven't been mentioned that makes them not very suitable for street use: they need heat to warm up and are not very effective when cold, they squeal (LOUD!), they dust, etc. Great for track use, not great for everyday street use. Most people who use them either swap pads before and after every track event, or they have track-only cars. A few others live with the downsides, but not many.

I do a lot of track events, but I also drive my cars on the street. I don't like to change my pads before and after each event. (Okay, I admit it - I'm lazy. ) What I've found is best for my situation is to use the most aggressive pad I can find that doesn't squeal (either never, or extremely rarely) on the street. And that has been the Cobalt GT Sport. I've been extremely happy with it, and it is my pad of choice. I have tried several other pads, but found that the Carbotech Panther Plus and Endless CC-X squealed too much for my taste. I've tried the Hawk HP Plus and it's not bad at all, although I think the GT Sport have just a bit more bite to them; if you like the Hawk HP Plus, and want to get a new set for the Expo, they should be fine. I also have had decent performance with the stock pads, but they didn't last as long as the GT Sports.

I agree. Keep in mind that the biggest benefit from better pads is not that they will stop your car shorter, but that they will stand up to the heat generated from track use without fading.

Here's my advice about pads for the Expo. I think you will be fine with any pad that is at least as good as the stock pads. That includes most of the pads sold by the aftermarket performance companies like Cobalt, Carbotech, Hawk, etc. I would avoid the house brands you find at auto parts stores, which usually aren't trackworthy compounds. I would also avoid "metal masters" for the same reason.

The front pads are 11 mm thick when new. For street use, they should be replaced at around 1.5-2.0 mm (and that's about when the stock pads will start squealing when the metal tab hits the rotor). For track use, I like to replace the fronts when they get down to about 3-4 mm; once they get to that point, heat can get conducted to the brake fluid more easily (there's less brake pad to act as an insulator) and the pads themselves are more likely to deteriorate (crumble and/or separate from the backing plate). I would make sure your front pads are at least 8-9 mm thick at the start of the event.

Rear pads are less of a concern because they do much less braking and they last a lot longer. (I've replaced my front pads 11 times, my rear pads twice.) They're 9 mm when new, and if they're still at 50 percent, they're fine.

One more tip - if you haven't already done so, make sure you bed your pads according to the directions from the manufacturer or the instructions on Stoptech's website. You should get them good and hot during the bedding procedure. This will accomplish two objectives: this will leave a uniform layer of brake pad material on the surface of the rotor, which will avoid problems with vibration due to an uneven layer of material buildup; and this will "heat cycle" your brake pads. The first or second time brake pads are heated to track temperatures, they usually fade (lose effectiveness); this is often called "green pad syndrome". After your first couple of track sessions, they will then be heat cycled and should be fine for the remaining life of the pad. Bedding may take care of one of the heat cycles for your pads. If this is your first time on the track with the front pads you're using, don't be surprised if you find them fading during your first or second track session. After that, they shouldn't do it any more (assuming they're decent quality pads).

 

Use whatever you want. Honestly, I would even recommend using whatever pads you got in there. If you want better brakes for the event, I woud choose stainless steel lines and a brake flush.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by migs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Use whatever you want. Honestly, I would even recommend using whatever pads you got in there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The issue isn't the quality of the pads; Hawk HP Plus should be fine. The issue is the thickness. If they're at 50 percent (which is 6-7 mm), I would either (a) replace them before the event, or (b) bring a spare set with you and be prepared to swap them at the event if your current ones get too thin.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by migs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want better brakes for the event, I woud choose stainless steel lines and a brake flush.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree and I agree.

The idea behind stainless steel brake lines is to reduce swelling in the brake lines for a more consistent pedal feel. If your brake pedal feels spongy, by all means consider them. I've never had a spongy pedal, in any of the cars I've tracked (including the ITR and NSX), and I've never bothered with stainless steel brake lines. YBMV.

Your brake fluid should be reasonably fresh any time you are in a track event. My rule of thumb is that, if I'm going to the track, I like to have flushed the brake fluid within the previous 6-8 months (which, for us northerners, means that we can flush the fluid each spring, at the start of the track season).

Higher temperature brake fluid will give you greater protection against the brake fluid boiling on the track. For the current list of popular brake fluids for track use and their prices and boiling temperatures, click here.

 

Nice info you guys posted up here, for sure it helped me alot I forgot to mention, i already have Sfida S.S brake lines all around (i dont know who else has heard of that brand?) but anyways, i think ill buy another set of the hawks, bring them with me just in case, and maybe a cheap pad on the drive home.

 

I suggested those 2 upgrades assuming that he is an entry level participant. Since 50%+ of expo is just that. Most of those guys just get cool stuff because they think they need it and which they probably dont anyway. Their skills and level of experience probably wont take them beyond the OEM pads. But yes, the pads should have at least 50% in them before taking it to the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by migs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Their skills and level of experience probably wont take them beyond the OEM pads.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just my opinion, but I would strongly advise never running a track event on the OEM ITR pads. Novice/intermediate folks tend to use their brakes excessively when compared to more advanced drivers, hence the need for added heat tolerance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Back in Black &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just my opinion, but I would strongly advise never running a track event on the OEM ITR pads. Novice/intermediate folks tend to use their brakes more than the more advanced drivers, hence the need for added heat tolerance.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even with the Type-R system? I remember I did my first track event (in a GSR) on some fresh Autozone pads and it was fine. I was new and nobody would guide me anywhere. I am just speaking from personal experience with a "lesser" car. I truely think he will be okay with fresh fluid and some stainless steel lines.

Edit: Different tracks react different to your brakes.

 

IMO oem itr pads are not track worthy at any skill level. For the beginner who uses the brakes too much, they overheat and fade. For the advance driver, they don't bite hard enough and they fade. Better track pads can be had for nearly the same price. There's no need to glaze or burn up a perfectly good set of oem pads on the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMO oem itr pads are not track worthy at any skill level.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree.

I used my stock pads for my first few track events in the ITR (bought new), and I thought they were fine. I never had any problems whatsoever with overheating or fading, other than in their first track session, just like every brake pad I've ever used. And I thought their bite and feel were just fine.

Sure, I like the Cobalt GT Sport pads even better (and even more so for those who like to use real track pads). But based on my experience, the stock pads were perfectly adequate for the track.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by migs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Edit: Different tracks react different to your brakes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

GingerMan is about average in terms of brake use, neither overly hard or overly easy on brakes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Back in Black &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just my opinion, but I would strongly advise never running a track event on the OEM ITR pads. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMO oem itr pads are not track worthy at any skill level.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is it too late to 3rd the motion?

As a "veteran" autocrosser and rookie HPDE'er, I completely destroyed my OEM pads at Hallett in a weekend. I was 23, kinda quick and kinda dumb and definitely didn't know crap about HPDE's. I didn't bring a spare set of pads nor did I decide to sit out my last set of runs (even though I clearly had no front brakes left).

I ended up putting my car into a tire wall, partly due to a bad passing decision, but also because my brakes weren't there when I really really needed them.

Take that as you will, but it is entirely possible to destroy/cook/turn to ash the front brake pads in an R, and it only takes a day or a day and a half.

For a better driver, at a course not too hard on brakes, one might get away with it. Maybe, the OEM pads got better between 1998 and 2000. But I can attest that mine were completely overwhelmed for HPDE.

-Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As a "veteran" autocrosser and rookie HPDE'er, I completely destroyed my OEM pads at Hallett in a weekend. I was 23, kinda quick and kinda dumb and definitely didn't know crap about HPDE's. I didn't bring a spare set of pads nor did I decide to sit out my last set of runs (even though I clearly had no front brakes left).

I ended up putting my car into a tire wall, partly due to a bad passing decision, but also because my brakes weren't there when I really really needed them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry to hear that Chris, was this in your R? Let me guess..T2 (counterclockwise)?

I cooked my oem pads ... at Gingerman, Expo2. They were almost new at the beginning of the event. I had to sit out the last session on day 2. The fronts had burned down to 15-20% and glazed over. My driving left a lot to be desired back then, but I wasn't exactly a track newb, either. Bad decision on my part not to order track pads in advance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Let me guess..T2 (counterclockwise)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Downhill 120 degree turn? LOL, thats a brake cruncher.

 

Back in July some guy in my run group went off at T2, over (and through) the tire wall and half-way into the woods. They had to get a cherry picker to pull the car back over the wall.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry to hear that Chris, was this in your R? Let me guess..T2 (counterclockwise)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Come on, you're lauging, it was funny!

Yes, in the R, brand-spanking new and still owed money on it.

Conterclockwise, Dead horse turn (corner 1?), starting from the wrong side of the track (passing a car with more power, and he didn't lift, and I wasn't comfortable enough with traffic to pull in front of him as close as he was). Slam on the brakes since I needed to cut some speed to make the turn from that side, and nothing happens, so I go straight off at about 100. It was long and bumpy ride, so I took the time to reflect about ALL the things I did wrong!!

 

vr's