Alright, this past Wed, I went to Pacific Raceways, formerly known as Seattle International Raceway, for a full day of lapping. It was my first day after 4 months, so I was a bit rusty in the beginning. The track was damp, rain was on/off, so it was never fully dry. I am not sure if the Yokohoma A032Rs could've performed differently in hot weather.

Anyway, by midday, I felt pretty good behind the wheel, but I was getting lapped left and right. There were 12-15 other cars, mostly 911s and M3s, an S2000, and a WRX. I know most of the drivers, and they're good. So, high HP cars, with good drivers, and me and the ITR had no chance. This was very disappointing, but not too surprising.

After 2.5 years of track driving, I am beginning wonder if it might be time to upgrade to a more powerful, RWD car, so I can run with the pack. Or, do you all think that an ITR can be upgraded, along with me, the driver, to a point that I could keep up with the stronger cars?

At the moment, other than the tires and R4S brake-pads, the car is bone stock. My questions is: If I got an H/E upgrade, new suspension, Toda A cams, strip some weight, put Hoosiers on, would that be enough to stay with the ITR? On one hand, I keep thinking all I need is about 30 more whp, and I can be very competitive. But I don't want to spend all that money, only to realize I still can't keep up with the big boys.

 

First thing!
Scrap those RS4 pads for some Straight R4, w/stainless lines and good fluid.
Intake, header and a nice exhaust and you'll add about 10-15 hp right there.

The rest is up to you.
I noticed the suspension is stock!
etc.,.. etc., ....


[Modified by zygspeed, 1:32 PM 3/15/2002]

 

I know squat about real track racing, but shouldn't the suspension be changed the first thing? (given that brake pads and fluid are good to go...) I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but TJ (ratedR) w/ Mugen suspension is about 2 full seconds faster than most R's at our SOLO II competition. If suspension can make 2 seconds worth of difference at 60sec SOLO II courses, I believe it'll have even greater benefits on a full track!

 

Definitely upgrade the suspension and get race tires! The car is great for a stock car, but by no means is it close to being ideal for the track. Large cam and ecu would also be a big help for the straights. Keep the ITR, it has so much potential.

CB

 

Why don't you rent another car for a track day and see how that goes?

 

Well one approach would be to go buy a $50K Z06. Lets say two people for example, one with an ITR the other with a Z06, both drive 70% of what their cars can potentially do, then naturally the z06 would be significantly quicker. So if you can afford to buy a more expensive (and faster) car, go right ahead! You *should* be faster in a car with more than twice the horsepower no matter how you look at it.

On the other if you keep doing all the driver schools, track days, autox events with your Type R that you can, it will also make you faster. To me this is the only alternative (since I can't afford to buy another car) and it is also MUCH more satisfying. Knowing that you're fast because you have a pretty good idea of what you're doing and not because you're behind the wheel of a 400 hp rocket is a good feeling. Driving a type r at 90-95% of what it can do at a track day should at least, in my pretty limited lapping day experiences, make you one of the fastest cars out there even in the advanced groups. Maybe all the guys on the track with you were all also driving their cars just as hard, who knows? My experience with track days is that people take pretty easy driving on the track. At one Porsche club event/school I went to last year with the type r, I was signed up for the advanced group, but because there were not that many people, they combined us in the same group with all the porsche instructors for that school. Sessions were 30 mins long and it was raining. It was clear none of the guys were pushing at all hard because of the wet conditions since in every session I was able to lap them all at least once. At the last track day at road atlanta I could get by most of the cars in the A group except for one Z06 and a 911 TT both on hoosiers and a tube frame M3 GT2 racecar. Those guys seemed to know what they were doing and they were clearly faster than all the other ferraris, NSXs, M3s, etc out there. So for track days it doesn't really matter what car you drive to a degree since the fastest guys will just about always be the ones who are really pushing their cars the hardest. That's why at road atlanta one time I was there, the fastest car on the track every session was this red hybrid civic hatch among all the 911 TTs, C5s, etc.. out there. The guy driving happened to be one of the panoz school instructors on hand, taking people for joy rides.

The most important thing to keep in mind for anyone doing lapping days (and I'm sure all of us know this ) is that this is not a contest of speed, but a "contest" of who can have the most fun out there. That is why it doesn't matter what car the real "winners" are driving because you can have tons of fun driving just about anything around a track. While the losers are the one who had it all backwards in their head and go home with their car on a flat bed. So let's enjoy whatever car we drive and have fun.

 

Well said.

 

I couldn't agree more. If anything, my recent track days have suggested that I might be better off tracking a cheaper beater that is dedicated to racing (see Hracer's CRX Si, now that's the way to go ). I am quite used to being hammered on the straights by cars with half the brains and twice the power. The fun, at least the way I see it, it catching up to them again before you get back to the straight. At the end of the day, I can afford a cheeseburger, and they're saving up for a new roll of bumper protector.

Whatever go-fast-goodies you get for your car, don't spend a ton of money all at once unless there's just something you HAVE to have because it makes you happy, if not faster (take my Sparco race seat as an example of that ). The one think that will make your R faster is the go-fast-goodie behind the wheel. Also, Hracer's comments suggest one more thing...don't push the car too hard when you don't have to. It would be a real shame to drive beyond your limits and destroy the car, only to have Mr. Big-Budget come over and say "Oh, I didn't know we were racing." Just like people say "save it for the track," I would add to save the 10/10ths driving for an actual competition, or preparation for one.

 

The latest issue of Grassroots MotorSports had a comparison of quite a few 4cyl cars. Two were 02 Sentra SE-R's. One was stock, the other was a Jim Wolf special. Suspension, wheels, brakes, turbo, etc. The car had 100 more hp than stock.

In their autocross test, the tuned car turned a (don't recall exactly) 44.5 sec run. The stock car turned a 45.

Makes me think that it's so much about the driver and not about the car.

I'm bascially stock and I keep up w/some and get passed by some. I can stay right w/the pack usually. I'm not knocking you though - just saying that's my experience at events.

Have you ridden w/others in their R's? Are times the same? What kind of times are you running there? Someone here probably can compare. Maybe you're leaving 5 seconds out there and it's just a matter of finding them.

Don't forget though - it's all about you becomming a better driver. Even if you were piloting a yugo, the thing is are you getting it for all it's worth. If you are, then you're driving better than most even though they might have faster cars.

YMMV

 

I agree with Hracer 100%. Now .. if you want to go faster, here is what I suggest:

* Get a roll bar/cage if you don't already have one.
* Get some race tires.
* Set your suspension up for the track.
* Go to more track events. Only seat time will make you faster.
* Tow your car to events.

A well driven and setup Type-R will be able to pass or hang with most cars at HPDEs and lapping days. As Hracer said, don't be going to these events to race. They are there for learning. If you want to race, try solo 1.

 

I don't think we've met Steve, but I hope we do one of these days. I have some April days for afternoon lapping.

I too have passed quite a few faster cars over the last couple of years, in fact a medium driver in a faster car is never that hard to keep up with. This time around, all the drivers were pretty good. Plus, the track was damp, so I could never push that hard. I'll wait for a sunny day and drier track to see what happens.

And yes, the 154whp figure is true. For some reason, I have an underpowered motor. I know that if I could get to 170-175whp, I wouldn't be losing tons of time on the front/back straight.

 

Sadly, I have never driven on the track with another ITR or that many Japanese cars for that matter. I surely agree with the driver part. There's much room for improvement on my part, but at the same time, the car also needs a few enhancements, 154whp is simply pathetic.

I'll track my progress over the course of the year, and see how things go. I'll take it one lapping day at a time.

 

FSO and the real steve c: Do you ever come out to autocross??? We should meet up sometime at an event or to grab some dinner or something. JohnG (who posts here) got me into racing last year (dragged for a couple years before that---yawn) and I'm totally hooked. I plan to start some lapping days this year but am worried about how the supercharger will heat things up and cut my day short.

I agree w/ the majority of the guys here. I've seen my car get faster and faster over the last year and the more I go to events the more I realize it's not my car getting faster at all.....it's me

Anyhoo, keep the car Let's hook up!!!

 

Work on those brakes, first!

 

The suspension i think is the first thing you should do. My bro rides a 2.5RS (Imprezza) and just by changing the suspension to a tein, the speed of each corner went up about 10km/h. Its more technique than the HP of the car. Even if you have a damn fast car, if you dont see the line, and if you dont know the braking point, the chance of you loosing iz high. (my bro's stock2.5rs+tien beat some porshe and those high hp cars). Putting a racing tire (high grip tire) will raise your time by about 1 sec i think, but its better not to use these tires until u feel as if you hit a wall (cant increase your time anymore). And bodyroll is a prob i think too. I would stick with the car you have until you reach a point where you cant raise your time anymore. Again, on track, its more technique than hp.

 

susp, tires and better brakes will help you a lot, but maybeyou need a super-good instructor to ride with you and make you see the areas in where you can improve.

I made more improvements in one day with a great instructor riding with me at Pocono than after $4000 of mods to my GSR. imagine how humbling that was...

 

Don't get discouraged fso_BamBam you have lots more potential in that car.

What you have to remember is that Acura/Honda tuned the Type R for multi-use - not track only. That's why it doesn't come with Hoosiers, high spring rates, matched dampers and R compounds. I wouldn't be quick to discredit the Type R as it is a really fast and fun car at SIR.

Last year when I lapped there with the Porsche Club - I had one of the best track days in my life. It was perfect weather conditions and altogether a good day. I was in the advanced group and was running with two other guys, one in a Porsche 911RS America and the other in a 993 Twin Turbo. Both had aftermarket rubber. I was able to hang with both these guys and afterwards they came over to talk to me about the Type R. They were simply amazed that the car handled as well as it did and that I could make up so much time on them, especially on the back section of turns. They would usually make a huge gap between me and them after the front straight - where I was limited by horsepower - but by the last turn I was always on their *** - which pissed them off a little bit - but also produced ear-to-ear grins for me. With a little tuning and an aftermarket suspension - you can make your car REALLY fast - which is a lot cheaper than buying a new car.

 

Well said ITR #231

Most of the road racer peeps that I have met and hang around stress this point so much! Along with the have fun message!

 

154whp?

did u do a tuneup prior? oil/filter? comp tested?