Alright, so i really need help with this one guys, cant pass smog without it!

First off what I have:
D16A6 Motor
PM6 ECU

Both Canadian Versions.

I have the dreaded code 20. Not a big deal, until you have to pass California smog with it. I need to get rid of this code to pass. So I check the Shop manual, looking for an answer. This is of cause the Faulty ELD in the fuse box. Heres the kicker: Canadian Versions of the EF/ED didn't have an ELD. Only US models, it says right in the manual, and I checked my fuse box. It just ain't there.

So what the Heck does a code 20 mean in a Canadian Civic? manual dosent even talk about it. I'm at a total loss here, and I NEED to fix this in a hurry to make my car California legal. Any Canadians or Americans that know the answer?

 

well, if it doesnt have one, why would it be giving the code?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by juice91si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, if it doesnt have one, why would it be giving the code?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you see the problem then.

Guys, REALLY need help with this. i cant figure it out. Someone on this board has figured this out before for sure.

I only have a few days before the Canadian insurance runs out, and I have to get my American insurance. Cant get the car on the raod without Smog, need to get this to pass!

Any help is apreciated.

 

call me tomorrow, I can diagnose

 

If you can help me with this, it would be a HUGE help. Im at a complete loss as to why a system that dosent even have an ELD from stock can toss a code that says its faulty.

Should i just call the Rywire number?

 

Yes, tomorrow, or if peter answers he can give u my cell. Do you have the wire run to the fuse box? You can get a fuse box with one, or a ecu without... I have a usdm fuse box from my old crx BTW

 

Thats the really weird thing, the ECU shouldnt have this. The ECU, Fuse box, Motor, wire harness and car are all Canadain. This IS a Canadain Civic. The only screwball factor is its a DX model that has had the whole wire harness replaced with a Si one, and then the motor dropped in.

Could the code be from an improper wire job somewhere else in the car? I have heard people talk about grounds etc etc, but I am not even sure where to begin.........

Electronics and Wiring are not even close to being my strong point.

Ill give you a call around noon to see. Be basic with me, and again, thanks for any help you can give!

 

yes, could be a grounding issue. Are you 100% sure the ecu never had the eld function? Do you have a wire in b19?

 

No, unsure. i will have to take a look at the ecu and get my pin out diagrmas tonight.

I can tell you though it never SHOULD have had one, but I was not the one who did the re wiring to it. The guys who did are damn good, but anyone can make a mistake.

Is it possible for me to bug you tonight on the phone? I dont think Ill be be able to get that pin out diagram until i get home. Ill see if I can check on my lunch hour though.

 

im useing a jdm ecu (pm7) and i get the same code.jdm ecu arent suposes to have this code am i right?if this is a ground issue where do i start to fix it?

 

okay, 100% sure it was never an American Fuse box, and checked, no wire in B19. I left my number with Peter, give me a call if you cn come up with ideas of where to start.

 

well if u are going to pass bar, you won't pass the visual because of it not being USDM.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UltimX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well if u are going to pass bar, you won't pass the visual because of it not being USDM.</TD></TR></TABLE>

USDM and Canadian motors are identical externally.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UltimX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well if u are going to pass bar, you won't pass the visual because of it not being USDM.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The motor is not the issue, and the ref said nothing about it. It really dosnet matter as a D16A6 is a D16A6 no matter what. Only the fact that it has a code 20 matters.

You can pass anything as long as it has a USDM equivalent and uses all the same smog equipment, or has a letter from the Air resources board stating that it passed all emmision standards at the time.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YumVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

USDM and Canadian motors are identical externally.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Identical other than the DAMN FREAKING FUSE BOX ELD UNIT!!! (note the frustration)

BIG THUMBS up to Rywire. To get a call back from a company that isnt making any money off you is HUGE. Thanks guys. Im going to try your sugestions and see what happens. Next time I need ANY new harnesses or jumpers, Im coming to you!

 

poor people that tried to help you out with their knowledge and all they get is a "But thanks for passing along false information anyway"............when i did the mpfi swap I used a pm6 ecu and got code 20 as the ecu was looking for the eld unit that is supposed to be in the car that had that ecu.....my pg5 (jdm 1.6)...ecu did the same...but there wasnt any problems with the wiring itself

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattie_96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">poor people that tried to help you out with their knowledge and all they get is a "But thanks for passing along false information anyway"............when i did the mpfi swap I used a pm6 ecu and got code 20 as the ecu was looking for the eld unit that is supposed to be in the car that had that ecu.....my pg5 (jdm 1.6)...ecu did the same...but there wasnt any problems with the wiring itself</TD></TR></TABLE>

1) His "Knowledge" was wrong, never helps anyone to pass along false information. There is WAY to much of it on this board as it is, and the internet in General.
2) I took it off. I guess Im just too nice of a guy.

Your in Winterpeg, so was the ECU you had a CND or US ECU? CND vehicles do not have an ELD, I checked it in the 91 Civic Shop Manuel. Only US versions did. What I dont get is why a Canadian ECU would look for somthing that was never there in the first place. Interesting that a JDM one would look for it too. I wonder if they have ELD..........

Somthing is missing from this equasion. It may be as simple as a ground, not sure. Gonna keep trying to fix it and see what happens.

 

well im not 100% sure if the 90' crx I took the ecu from was US or CDN as in winnipeg theres about 60%CDN 35%US models..and about 5% others but yes it was looking for an eld....its confusing though like you stated as some manuals say other things and other manuals just dont make any sense in their statements.......but try a different ECU that you KNOW 100% that its CDN which is gonna b hard cuz ur in the US....but then youll know for sure whats up

 

but what appears to be the case....and not a CDN or US issue....is that the si's had the ELD unit as when you put a pm6 in a dx or cx..you get the code because those models dont have it.....I guess well never know unless we compare a US CX US Dx and US SI...to CDN si, dx, and cx...good luck

 

I'm too lazy to read. If you read hte service manual you will see that the ELD was US only! I have that code before... I can't remember if I still do after I chipped my OBD1 ECU.

If you can find a Canadian ECU you'll be laughing... If not then see if you can chip the ECU with a stock program and delete the ELD feature...

 

Not sure how much clearer I can state this.

The Car IS Canadian
The ECU IS Canadian
The Fuse box IS Canadian
Hell, I AM Canadian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattie_96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but what appears to be the case....and not a CDN or US issue....is that the si's had the ELD unit as when you put a pm6 in a dx or cx..you get the code because those models dont have it.....I guess well never know unless we compare a US CX US Dx and US SI...to CDN si, dx, and cx...good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope. The shop manuel states it, and Ive never seen a Canadian Si with an ELD. The ELD is a US only Function, which makes it weirder that Canadian and JDM ECUs seem to pick it up. It IS a CND/US thing, thats the whole problem. Anyone who has a shop manuel for these cars can verify it. If your Canadian go out and open your fuse box, you can see there is no three prong hookup for the ELD. It never exsisted.

Now it IS possible it is ONLY not included in the 91 year in Canada, but I dont think so. If anyone can verify, please check it out.

In the Meantime, I got some Ideas from the guys at Rywire, gonna try that out and see what happens.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skelly ed666 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If not then see if you can chip the ECU with a stock program and delete the ELD feature...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Skelly, that may be my only option, but i would still like to find out why this code would even appear on an ECU that should not be able to pick it up. If anyone has a bone stock 91 Civic Si Canadain Version, check to see if there is a wire coming out of Pin Out B19, and let me know.

 

doh Sorry. I can't really answer your question as to why it is there then.

Does not make sense to me either...

 

Still waiting to see in any of the Canadians can check there Si for a wire in B19..........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZCcivic91 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not sure how much clearer I can state this.

The Car IS Canadian
The ECU IS Canadian
The Fuse box IS Canadian
Hell, I AM Canadian
.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Does it have seatbelts in the doors? If so it was made in Canada but for the US market. I've owned several EF civics that were made in Canada, but not for the Canadian market.

 

how do u know the ecu is canadian? I'm from Canada and i've had american ecu's and thrown eld codes (cause my cars don't have the eld in the fuse box) its very possible a canadian put an american pm6 ecu in when they did the mpfi swap. Use a canadian ecu!