If my understanding is correct...PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

Braking before a turn is usually done in gear, and prior to turn-in you perform a single downshift to the desired gear, (or you could row through the gears if you're a traditionalist). The clutch pedal is pushed only to perform the shift.

The "both feet in" mantra is just for when you get into an uncontrollable spin and don't want to stall the engine.

How about braking after a long straight in 4th to enter a hairpin that requires 1st or 2nd gear? Does that change anything?

 

revmatch?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superpilun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If my understanding is correct...PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

Braking before a turn is usually done in gear, and prior to turn-in you perform a single downshift to the desired gear, (or you could row through the gears if you're a traditionalist). The clutch pedal is pushed only to perform the shift.

The "both feet in" mantra is just for when you get into an uncontrollable spin and don't want to stall the engine.

How about braking after a long straight in 4th to enter a hairpin that requires 1st or 2nd gear? Does that change anything?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i used to clutch while braking, but i also used to steer with one hand and hold on for dear life with the other (using the shfiter as a handle)...i do heel-toe while braking so i guess i'm depressing the clutch.

i usually row through all gears if it's a multiple gear downshift,

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superpilun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If my understanding is correct...PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

Braking before a turn is usually done in gear, and prior to turn-in you perform a single downshift to the desired gear, (or you could row through the gears if you're a traditionalist). The clutch pedal is pushed only to perform the shift.

The "both feet in" mantra is just for when you get into an uncontrollable spin and don't want to stall the engine.

How about braking after a long straight in 4th to enter a hairpin that requires 1st or 2nd gear? Does that change anything?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's how I do it. And I don't go through all the intervening gears; if I need a downshift from fourth to second, I do NOT shift into third in between.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vietnameeh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">revmatch?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, matching revs should be done whenever shifting - letting the revs fall to the proper level when upshifting, and blipping the throttle up to the proper level when downshifting.

 

I just recently started shifting immediately to the desired gear, used to do the rowing-through-the-gears method. While I have to admit the old way was more fun, the new way seems more efficient.

 

I live by a simple addage while I am paying for parts.

You use brakes to brake the car. You use the clutch to change gears.

Until I have someone paying for parts etc.. Im going to keep using brakes for braking.. Brake pads are a shitload cheaper than clutch discs and easier to get to!

 

I don't know if I have been around long enough to be a traditinalist or not...but I row through the gears when downshifting more than one gear. The reason I do it is because engine braking seems to assist the otherwise puny brakes on the car. If I had massive stoppers that could lock the wheels up at will, I might change my practice.

 

I row through the gears. Aside from feeling like a race car driver, its smoother, you go in to third until you get into RPM that wont over rev the motor, then second. If you go straight to second, it takes more concentration away from what is probably braking at the limit.
Eyal

 

I row through the gears instead of going from 5th to 2nd in one shift because I don't want the outside chance of putting the shifter into the wrong gear by going straight from such a higher gear to a lot lowe gear. I have been revmatching every day for 30 years anyhow and it is all instinctive by now.

Barry H.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Want2race &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I live by a simple addage while I am paying for parts.

You use brakes to brake the car. You use the clutch to change gears.

Until I have someone paying for parts etc.. Im going to keep using brakes for braking.. Brake pads are a shitload cheaper than clutch discs and easier to get to!</TD></TR></TABLE>

i have read that compression braking is bad for the engine as well. it creates a low pressure area on top of the piston and the wrist pin does not like it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I row through the gears. Aside from feeling like a race car driver, its smoother, you go in to third until you get into RPM that wont over rev the motor, then second. If you go straight to second, it takes more concentration away from what is probably braking at the limit.
Eyal</TD></TR></TABLE>

The opposite of what you said is more true.

If your busy rowing thru the gears while doing threshold braking then you are taking a lot of extra activities that are not required.

That being said, I depending on track conditions, the type of corner, how the car is feeling I use both methods.

Rick

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The opposite of what you said is more true.

If your busy rowing thru the gears while doing threshold braking then you are taking a lot of extra activities that are not required.

That being said, I depending on track conditions, the type of corner, how the car is feeling I use both methods.

Rick

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That sounds similar to me, I was told "don't use the engine and transmission to slow the car" more wear and tear on engine, tranny, and clutch.

They told me get all your braking done in the same gear that you were in, then as your braking zone is coming to an end shift to the desired gear ease out the clutch and that will slow the car a little more taking that into account while braking to the threashold. I am too much of a n00b to heal-toe. Just be smooth.

 

I usually go through the gears. It's on my list of things to break myself of, but I don't think it's hurting me too much. I need to get a datalogger to find out if I am indeed losing time under braking due to my multiple downshifts The tracks aren't fast enough and braking zones in my area aren't long enough for me to worry too much about needing to drop three gears, and two downshifts isn't much more than one, so I'm not really worried about it. If I were driving something with a closer ratio 6-speed that had some power, I'd probably go from 6th to 3rd a lot and I'd probably try and do it all at the end of the braking zone rather than go through the gears.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's how I do it. And I don't go through all the intervening gears; if I need a downshift from fourth to second, I do NOT shift into third in between.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

I used to do it that way but now I find that I'm able to brake deeper if I down shift and rev match into each gear. This allows the engine to assist in the braking process and seems to help in keeping the front brakes from locking up. Especially now with larger front brakes, XP10 pads, and Hoosiers.

 

i go down through each gear. but, i do rev match each,so minimal clutch wear. this way i'm always close to power band if the tail starts to go away. the motor is not bogging trying to catch the rear end.

he but i'm just a parking lot racer

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shakedown94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i go down through each gear. but, i do rev match each,so minimal clutch wear. this way i'm always close to power band if the tail starts to go away. the motor is not bogging trying to catch the rear end.

he but i'm just a parking lot racer </TD></TR></TABLE>

Y'know, that reminds me of something I've been meaning to bring up here. When I start to lose it, either by putting a rear wheel in the dirt, trailbraking a touch too much, or whatever, I've found my natural reaction is to be in a gear higher up than what would be optimal for whatever speed I'm at. In doing that, power to the drive wheels is limited, so that when I jump on the gas I'm not breaking them loose and contributing to the loss of control. However, I've never compared this with being in the "right" gear, so I have no idea which works better. Anyone have input, even though this is completely unrelated to the topic at hand?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The opposite of what you said is more true.

If your busy rowing thru the gears while doing threshold braking then you are taking a lot of extra activities that are not required.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I concur... Although i tend to row the gears I notice it is a lot harder to be right on the threshold, harder to be smooth on the braking while heel-toeing.

I think if i can get my timing right, at corners like turn 1 at Mission, I'd be better off skipping some gears--but only if I get the timing right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rotten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think if i can get my timing right, at corners like turn 1 at Mission, I'd be better off skipping some gears--but only if I get the timing right.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just getting through "T-Bone Central" without having your car folded in half by brain dead idiots can be considered getting the timing right.

Rick


Modified by turfer at 8:41 PM 12/3/2005

 

I was brought up skipping gears, I can row down if I'm unfamiliar with the car but I rarely do it. I was also brought up heel and toeing so it's just second nature whether on the street or the track. Like people have said, brakes are much cheaper than clutches.

I tend to do all my braking in one gear and then pop off the shift right before I turn in. I also prefer not to use the clutch on downshifts while racing because it's smoother but that's only a small step from heel-and-toe.

Being in the 'right' gear and just having gentel feet is really worth alot. Also look at your steering angle if you're having trouble with drastic under(FWD&RWD)/oversteer(RWD) when you get on the throttle. Most drivers turn in too late and add too much steering input making the car unbalenced when they roll on the throttle. They then compensate by setting the car up loose and compramise their ability to really put power down on corner exit rather than just fixing the bit behind the wheel

 

rowing through the gears is much better on the synchros

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rowing through the gears is much better on the synchros </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why?

Assuming you're moving at the same speed you would be had you gone through all the gears, what's the difference? The input and output shafts are spinning at the exact same speeds. In fact, I'd argue that skipping the gears "in between" is easier on the syncros because it's mathematically fewer downshifts, which means fewer syncro engagements, and thus, less wear.

This obviously assumes that you wait to make that 5 -&gt; 2 downshift until the same "place" in your braking zone...and your engine's RPMs...that you would have made the 3 -&gt; 2 downshift going through the whole box.

I'm not casting doubt, I ask because I don't know. I'm not a transmission expert.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turfer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just getting through "T-Bone Central" without having your car folded in half by brain dead idiots can be considered getting the timing right.
Modified by turfer at 8:41 PM 12/3/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is one corner that genuinely scares me every time there is anyone near. Especially starts. Requires some trust and cooperation for sure.

 

"rowing through the gears is much better on the synchros "

I too have head similar things. I don't know the exact mechanical reasons for it but I think it's actually got to do with downshifting across the gate i.e 5th - 2nd vs same side 5th -3rd.

I can say from experience that on dog engagement gearboxes I find it much easier to make shifts across the gate rather than on the same side.

I don't know why this is mechanically tho, I think it may have to do with the shift fork configuration but that may be completely wrong.

 

Well, it seems like it's going both ways. I have no experience with any of this, as I've never tracked my car (I hope to this season). But, I did win an Options video from the Eibach meet, and all the nsx/itr/ctr drivers downshifted gear by gear until they reached the destination gear. That is, they rowed through the gears.

...And damn they did it well.

 

Watch some Speed WC in-car footage, as that'd most likely be less interested in looking cool. Not saying the drivers in the Options videos are bad or anything, but there's more going on than just shooting for best laptimes or whatever.