Due to the difficulty of obtaining a suitable carbon or kevlar composite down here in New Zealand we are experimenting with composite of kevlar , cardboard and epoxy.

we have tried :
10mm foam composite sign board -too heavy and not heat proof
plywood too heavy , will leave this for Kiwi Jeff
alloy -cannot handle touching the track
polyester/coremat / cloth - too heavy

we are experimenting with cardboard as is used in windscreen packaging which we roll both sides with epoxy resin . when this has gone off we apply a sheet of woven kevlar to each side and roll out with epoxy

still working on small samples at the moment

our splitter undertray runs from the bottome of our ITR lip back to front driveshaft line

Interested in any comments or suggestions


Modified by BigAl at 5:14 AM 12/3/2005

 

Yeah i can think of a few..

A roll of cut and break plastic which is tough,strong and light not to mention cheep...

 

We've used a laminate availabel from sign shops. Don't remember the exact product name but is a piece of fiberglass sandwiched between two pieces of thin aluminum sheet. Roughly 6mm thick total. Relatively light & string. Price is around $120 for a 4'x8' sheet.

The vertical section to link up with the bumper cover is 0.40 aluminum, shaped to fit and bolted to the undertray. We use the stock splash guard mounts to bolt the undertray to it. Ours only runs back to the wheel well openings.

 

Hey Al
Great minds think alike! Must be a Kiwi ingenuity thing?

I too have been experimenting using Cardboard as a base with Resin and Cloth covering, I think it could work ok... I believe I have tried almost every type of material there is and although the 5/16" Plywood is a little heavy, it has always proved to be the least expensive, and easiest to fix!
The thing with splitters is that they are a disposable item!
I'll be trying my new rear difuser this weekend at Willow Springs, with the front splitter/undertray. (Thanks to Johny Mac for all the tips) Full length belly pan coming up over the off season. And hopefully a full aerodynamics package project on the new Civic Si.
A TV series on the build up of two new Special Projects "Touring/Racecar and "Bling/Street/Tuner cars" is in the pipeline for 2006?
I still don't know quite where we are going with the Chevy Cobalt thing at this stage...? Time will tell, but HONDA is hard to break away from...

When are you coming over here again?

Kiwi

 

You guys are spoilt with all the aerospace materials available .

No one even builds aircraft here. The closest we get to hi tech laminates is from the marine guys who use it in top end racing yatchts.... we did win the americas cup.

Its really weight reduction and resistance to abrasion that we are after so will continue experimenting with the kevlar skin .

We have found that alloy only need the briefest touch on the track and it is gone

Looks like I will be heading over next year as the Hotel changes hands 13th December and hopefully the land and buildings will follow shortly after .

May have a look around to see what is available on the race car work scene .

 

Here is a link to an SCCA production car forum about the same thing.
http://www.coloradoscca.org/pr...=5059
Good luck with your project!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Raceworks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We've used a laminate availabel from sign shops. Don't remember the exact product name but is a piece of fiberglass sandwiched between two pieces of thin aluminum sheet. Roughly 6mm thick total. Relatively light & string. Price is around $120 for a 4'x8' sheet.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I examined a piece of that stuff at sign shop a couple of months ago and my race car engineering imagination began to stew! It's called 'Alumalite'

http://www.signsupplystore.com...10898

I agree with Sam. This material has strong possibilities for a splitter.

 

perhaps andrie will comment on this sign material. he used that or something like it for his front splitter.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">perhaps andrie will comment on this sign material. he used that or something like it for his front splitter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ya i use it too, so does Mike Q.



We all found out about it from Mike Q. andrie's old spilters were just aluminum, he like the alumalite stuff much better

(edit: this spilter is has too much front area for H4, i realize that. Its just easier to make big and then trim down)

 

so the question is, can you stand on it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so the question is, can you stand on it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

when its on the car, yes i can. I did this spliter much differently then Andrie does his, and also differently then Mike Q. Mike's could be stood on also. On Andrie's you might be able to stand on, the thing is becuase of rules all 3 different designs of his splitter are much, much larger then Mike's or mine.

 

Hey guys, do you think an alumilite splitter would withstand a 50mph impact with a cone?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j-rho &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey guys, do you think an alumilite splitter would withstand a 50mph impact with a cone?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im not sure, i recently had a run in with a cone at thunderhill. and it pushed in my fender a decent amount. I had no clue it had happened, and when i got out some one asked me who i hit, and that really what it looked like. Like some one put a donut on my fender.

It's pretty strong stuff, but some of the cones i see at road courses are mounsterous and would defently do damage.

 

There are a number of WC teams using Alumalite for splitter material. I think the "this vs. that" questions are more for the "haves" than the "have-nots". Alumalite is very strong and light FOR THE PRICE. It's not the ultimate, but how many of us really have the time or the resources for a custom CF lay-up? I've got a few other things to lavish time and money upon.

Alumalite looks like the hot tip to me. I can hardly wait to get started on mine. First things first, though. Got to get an engine back in and running. THEN get to play Splitter Man...

Thawley -- who gets all tingly and warm anytime I get to use my router...

 

The alumilite stuff does look like a good bargain. If you're just looking at flat pieces though, these guys have some relatively good deals on carbon:
http://www.robotcombat.com/mar....html

 

Lexan seems like the perfect solution for your application. Price, machinability, and availability.

 

You guys using Alumilite should check out Dibond as well. It's actually a little bit lighter AND more stiff than Alumilite. Dibond actually has some sort of composite sandwiched between the aluminum sheet, rather than just the corrugated plastic.

-Matt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I SAY EH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You guys using Alumilite should check out Dibond as well. It's actually a little bit lighter AND more stiff than Alumilite. Dibond actually has some sort of composite sandwiched between the aluminum sheet, rather than just the corrugated plastic.

-Matt
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here is a link to a Dibond Data Sheet as well as Fabrication Guide: http://www.bayplastics.co.uk/P...d.htm.

I may have to try this stuff when I fabricate my new air dam and splitter.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by j-rho &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> these guys have some relatively good deals on carbon:
http://www.robotcombat.com/mar....html</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, the 48" x 72" foam core board I was going to use for my front splitter would be about... $1,650 plus shipping. Ouch, it would hurt to hit a cone with that one.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H4CivicSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Here is a link to a Dibond Data Sheet as well as Fabrication Guide: http://www.bayplastics.co.uk/P...d.htm.

I may have to try this stuff when I fabricate my new air dam and splitter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed, that stuff looks pretty nice. Has anyone seen a price on it anywhere?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krbobcat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Agreed, that stuff looks pretty nice. Has anyone seen a price on it anywhere?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depending on thickness, it looks to be about $80-110 for a 4'x8' sheet. I think the key is to find some place local that will sell it so the shipping doesn't kill you. Maybe a local sign store?

This place has it:
http://www.harborsales.net/ful...tview

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Due to the difficulty of obtaining a suitable carbon or kevlar composite down here in New Zealand</TD></TR></TABLE>
What do you mean? It is easy to obtain composite materials in New Zealand. Go to the nearest boat building yards.

I had an arrangement with high modulus in Auckland where I would go through their skip out the back and scavange pieces of foam. Often they skim a large piece of solid foam to square it up and you get large sheets of 4-8 mm foam. With these 'scraps' I made a sun roof replacement for the CRX and a number of front splitters. Cardboard etc is not going to work anywhere as near as well. If cost is an issue use a fiberglass / foam / fiberglass composite as this is much stronger and lighter than solid carbon fibre, otherwise you can't beat carbon/foam/carbon. Kevlar doesn't work as well in my experience as it is not as stiff and I only use it for abrasion resistance.

 

There is a severe carbon fiber shortage right now so it's difficult for anyone to get much CF fabric. When you can find it, the price is astronomical. For instance, 10 yards of 50" wide plain weave 5.7 oz runs around $390. I remember only last year that this same product was 12 to 15 dollars a yard. This shortage is thanks to Airbus, Boeing, the US military, and the huge increase in use by many other industries.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Mac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a severe carbon fiber shortage right now so it's difficult for anyone to get much CF fabric. When you can find it, the price is astronomical. For instance, 10 yards of 50" wide plain weave 5.7 oz runs around $390. I remember only last year that this same product was 12 to 15 dollars a yard. This shortage is thanks to Airbus, Boeing, the US military, and the huge increase in use by many other industries.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think it's so much a shortage, as the high oil prices driving the cost way up. At least that was my understanding, I could obviously be very wrong.

 

anyone every try (HDPE) or (LDPE) High/low density Polyethylene? You can get in 1/8" thick, for $2.30 a square foot. 4'x8' sheet would only be about $70


Modified by 577HondaPrelude at 3:31 PM 12/10/2005


Modified by 577HondaPrelude at 3:34 PM 12/10/2005