I've ment to ask, have any of you other type r owners noticed that if you brake as hard as you can from 120mph to say 80, that if you are not in a perfectly straight line the car will go sideways and try to kill you? I'm speaking from track expirances and not trying to sound like a jack *** doing this on the highway!

 

LOL...uh, yeah!

Jason-
who must admit he's hooked on trail braking

 

Yes, it will wiggle some, and you may need to make some minor corrections. If you see the video link in my sig, you can see the car starting to come around in the first brake zone. Just gotta correct for it. The smoother you are on the brake, the less this will happen. I've just learned to deal w/ it.

Warren

 

I don't think its a dumb question I've had other cars that didn't react so severly, it feels like a 911 but they have the engine in the back which explains their problem.

 

My rear end gets loose under maximum braking, but I've never gotten sideways (uncontrollably) per se.

To an extent, you plan for this to happen with that kind of weight transfer and it'd be just as un-nerving if it didn't happen.

 

Hehe...didn't mean to sound mean. I was rather relating to the first experience I had with it personally, that's all. No offense intended

 

Yup, it seems to be a slightly more inhearant trait of the ITR.

Of course if you are on a track you really shoulden't be braking in a corner anyways, Especially at high speeds, in an ITR or just about any other automobile.

Braking in a corner, NOT late braking or trail braking, unsettles the car and makes the weight distribution uneven promoting loss of control of the car. It's all about balance and maintaining control.

When driving at high speed you should work as hard as possible to brake in the straightest line. It's no fun flying off the track.

Good luck,

A.

 

I agree with this statement. I find that the FF heavy nosed ITR gets really light in the back with high-speed severe braking. The Mugen wing cured this for me.

Depending on your tires and what ruts are present in the road you are braking on - you may find the car dart a little right and left during braking. This is why you need to

1) keep both hands on the wheel at all times and
2) use the dead pedal to brace yourself when braking (that's what it's there for)

 

I've never lost it luckily! I've boiled my brake fluid though. I have some high temp fluid in now with porterfeild R4S brake pads and stainless steel lines. What do you recommend for a hi temp brake fluid, I'm thinking about bleeding the line and replacing my fluid before the next track day.

 

I find this to be very true for those who track the car with a stock suspension....

I experienced this first hand braking from 200+kph for turn two at SIR....

"holy craaaaaaaaaaaaaaap.....!" Was my first reaction.... never felt the car bite back at me like that before....

I think it's time to have a steadier foot and possibly a stiffer nose/sus. kit altogether, to reduce the huge dive the car was faced with.....

 

The type r is so sweet on the track, with r compound tires I was running down cars I never thought I would be able to! I had a 318ti BMW before with lots of mods and it always instilled confidance at the limit. The R always feels like its about to screw me but then you go faster and it still sticks, I think you just need cojones to drive this car at the limit!

 

Wow, its so great to hear from people who actually track their cars!

 

Amen, brother.

 

98401R- who wishes there tracks closer to his area and not a 4hr drive

 

talk to some of the ********* on this board...

Doug, the reason why your car might be unstable during braking is because you have no wing. See BPR's post about Mugen wing. Speaking of wings, you have email.

 

Hey Steve! I'm a bit confused, by your post here... you said to use stock brake pads in the rear and race brake pads up front correct? Not quite sure how that is suppose to work....?

Also, isn't SIR closed this entire season because they are repaving the entire track and also getting rid of my favorite 3a, and 3b turns??

What's going on? There is lapping next week!???

RA who still has a grinding 3rd gear... and can't do ISH about it right now...

 

Wing or no wing, it's going to wag, and sometimes it will come around, and you have to ease up on the brake and give some steering input to correct, otherwise you will get to stare at the next driver, eye to eye.

Warren

 

I COMPLETELY agree with this, as I experimented at the last two VIR events. Ran two sessions with the wing removed, then 2 with the wing. No difference was felt between the two while braking. On a different note, I could feel a small lapse in stability when exceeding 120mph on the straights...

Jason-
who likes the wing on track

 

exactly...

Will
-who thinks 'pimping' the ITR in the strip is st00pid

 

I just took the wing off so it was on when this occured, I've heard the Mugen wing helps but I had a real bad expiriance trying to order one so I gave up! I said it was good to see people take their r's to the track because everyone I ever talk to, especially domestic guys, say,"what do you run in the 1/4 mile?" I have to expain my car is in no way made for the 1/4 mile especially now with my suspension set-up. Noone ever wants to go to the track and we only live 1 hour from Mid-Ohio and 1 hour from Nelson Ledges!

 

This means that the percentage of total braking force generated by the rear is less with aggressive pads up front and stock rears (i.e., you unload the rear of the car).

Conversely, puting aggressive pads on the rear and stocks on the front would increase the percentage of brake force generated by the rear brakes.

Using same compound front and rear maintains stock brake force distribution profile.

 

Sure it'll wiggle a little, happens every time. Just make sure both hands are on the steering wheel, and make the necessary correction. After a while, it becomes routine.

 

I think the car seems to feel like the rear end floats a little while braking very hard because it's doing just that - the type r has powerful brakes and you can literally brake *harder* than most other cars. The weight transfer due to the harder forward g-force while braking, especially with R tires and good pads, is what unloads the rear so much. What you would have to worry about in cars with such strong brakes is for rear lock up because that can really turn you around fast, but since the type r has very good ABS, that is not a problem. Just look at all the SSC/SSB and T2 cars at the Runoffs. They look like their rear ends get jacked up 2 feet in the air at every brake point, and you can visibly tell the cars are slightly waving left and right while braking. They have to run on relatively soft spring rates (for the Gs they're pulling), just like a stock type r does. As Warren put it, this is normal in heavy braking. Once you're used to it, you'll forget the car is even doing it as you subconsciously making the small corrections without thinking. I've driven a stock type r a few times on three tracks and I find that it is very solid under braking (actually everywhere on the track!). Not only can I brake visually a good deal deeper than I can with the crx (racecar), the ITR is also a good bit more stable. I find a stock Type R is extremely responsive to any kind of trail braking (which is a really great characteristic), but I think this comes at the price of it feeling a little twitchier than other cars. (Warren would know how a type r feels like in race trim.) I think you just have to be a little careful at first until this feeling becomes more normal.

However, a very "darty" or twitchy car under braking can also mean you have bad alignment. A little change in toe out can be felt very easily under hard braking as the car wants to dart left and right and even come around if your rear toe is too far out. The solution with a bad alignment is obviously to fix it, but if you can't, then you just have to brake easier and get through the day, which might sometimes be frustrating.

 

Or remove the p/s belt..

Will
-who has less wiggle with the belt off

 

hmm... ancient chinese secret!