i finally got my car back on the road and its almost scary to drive. the suspension feels like sh*t. it's Fine driving straight, but when i turn anything harder than normaly driving the car feels like it wants to spin out. The rear end feels like it's going to spin around.

Here is my setup
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2000 Civic EX
96 CX subframe and manual rack
Ground Control coils 350f/450r
Koni Yellow full adjustable shocks
Suspension Techniques Front Sway - 50167 - 15/16"
Suspension Techniques Rear Sway - 51145 - 3/4"
Neuspeed Front upper strunt bar
DC Sports Rear lower strunt bar
OmniPower Rear LCA's
OmniPower Rear camber kit
OmniPower Front camber kit
Azenis 615 - 205/16/40
---
Here is what has changed since the car felt good
CX subframe and rack
Rear LCA's
Front and Rear Camber kits
Front and Rear Sway bars.
swapped from drum to disk in the rear.

I just did an eyeball alignment with a level
i have the front shocks 1 full turn from soft
i have the rear shocks 1/2 turn from soft
front sits 22.5 inches from fender to ground
rear sits 22.75 inches from fender to ground

please let me know what adjustments i should try to fix this problem.

thanks
platinum

 

you probably have some crazy *** toe out in the rear, get a real 4 wheel alignment

 

I concur on the need for the real alignment especially looking at the rear toe. Although you have a lot of chassis stiffening items and a number of performacne parts, nothing screams that it should be really too much oversteer unless you have the rear sway bar at the firmest setting and the rear shcoks adjusted really high as well.

Check the alignment first to know that is correct as that is the likely culprit. Make sure that your rear adjustable items are not at a really high setting. Better to get the car back to a more conservative neutral if not lightly understeering situation then use your tuning adjustments to establish the balance you want.

 

thanks for the replys. i hoping to learn a bit from this post.

i agree i need a real alignment. i just never thought it would make that much of a difference. i have an appointement thursday at 10am.

i did notice soemthign on the rear toe. like i said i swaped to rear disks, the toe seems to be (naked eye) still off even with the setting on the trailing arm all the way out.

has anyone had problem with toe after swaping to disks. can i notch the sliding part a little more if needed.

also, you guys mentioned the sway bar being at the firmist setting. i dont think mine has adjustements, or maybe i just dont know how to adjust it.


platinum.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by platinum00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for the replys. i hoping to learn a bit from this post.

i agree i need a real alignment. i just never thought it would make that much of a difference. i have an appointement thursday at 10am.

i did notice soemthign on the rear toe. like i said i swaped to rear disks, the toe seems to be (naked eye) still off even with the setting on the trailing arm all the way out.

has anyone had problem with toe after swaping to disks. can i notch the sliding part a little more if needed.

also, you guys mentioned the sway bar being at the firmist setting. i dont think mine has adjustements, or maybe i just dont know how to adjust it.


platinum.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

some sways have adjusters built into them, i'm not sure if the ST stuff does.

there are a ton of ways to get the car to handle more neutral though. like others have said, softening up the rear is the 2nd priority (after getting that alignment), but some other tricks are to adjust tire pressures or rear camber settings. you could also, if the oversteer is still too extreme for you, swap the springs back to front (though, that's no fun).

i think, once the toe issue is resolved, adding some negative camber in the rear and going with some more neutral inducing tire pressures should do the trick.

 

thanks for the tips.

should i run a higher or lower tire pressure in the rear, and what effect does each have.

i guess i just need to wait untill i have the alignment done and see how she feels.

ill post back after that.

any ideas on the toe problem i mentioned. not being able to get it back to "0" because im out of room on the slider.

platinum.

 

here is a picture of the trailing arm adjustment that i dont have anymore adjustment on. i still have toe in.


what on my setup would cause this. the rear disk conversion from a EG using the OMNI lca for my EK maybe.

do they make a longer rear upper control arm or whatever that piece is connected to the slider.

platinum.

 

first off, "eye ball" alignments are never right.

and if it "looks" like you have toe in, then you adjuster is in the wrong spot. If you have toe in, the bolt should be all the way to the right in the picture, that will move it to toe out. but i would save yourself a headach, and just wait untill you get the alignment.

If your camber is all funky out back that can cause over steer also.

 

get that professional alignment and come back with numbers.

SRR does make adjustable rear toe links. however, i dont suggest anyone get them because they also introduce changing the length of the arm which changes the toe curve. perhaps thats intended, but probably most ppl dont realize what that means. its not the proper way to solely adjust toe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">first off, "eye ball" alignments are never right.

and if it "looks" like you have toe in, then you adjuster is in the wrong spot. If you have toe in, the bolt should be all the way to the right in the picture, that will move it to toe out. but i would save yourself a headach, and just wait untill you get the alignment.

If your camber is all funky out back that can cause over steer also.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that picture is not of my car. mine is all the way out

 

I dont know why you are complaining. That is what the sway bars are supposed to do. Your car is now rotating, which is why the type r got such high praise. I say take it to a large parking lot and find out where your new limits of adhesion are. I am pretty sure that you will be impressed. I have pretty much the same setup and i love the way the car feels when the *** gets out and turns. Very easy to correct with just the gas.

 

i dont think im complaning about it, im trying to figure out whats going on.

your car might be handling right, but mine is for sure not.

platinum.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pny1981 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont know why you are complaining. That is what the sway bars are supposed to do. Your car is now rotating, which is why the type r got such high praise. I say take it to a large parking lot and find out where your new limits of adhesion are. I am pretty sure that you will be impressed. I have pretty much the same setup and i love the way the car feels when the *** gets out and turns. Very easy to correct with just the gas. </TD></TR></TABLE>

when a driver is not comfortable with the handling characteristics of a car, it's generally a bad idea to keep the car handling that way. too loose, too tight, there's no 1 right setup for every driver.

 

there is a possiblity that your rear trailing arm is bent slightly. The alingment place should be able to tell you if they can get it correct or not.

SPC makes a threaded rear toe adjuster that replaces the stock stamped piece and offers more adjustment. If your trailing arm is only slightly bent, the SPC piece can be used to get it back into spec.

here's a link

http://www.prosuspension.com/p...3fab0

 

that part is nice. that sounds like what i need if i cant get the toe to "0". $144 is cheap too.

i hope nothing is bent since i just did the swap, but maybe it was bent before i got it.

ill let you guys no tomorrow after the real alignment what my numbers are.

thanks for all your help.

platinum.

 

ok, so an alignment fixed me right up. i also had a bolt on my front sway bar that was broke that was causing some of the issues.

my "eye ball" alignment was way off to say the least

im now a these settings

TOE-
FR: -.05 FL: -.05
RR: -.10 RL: -.10

CAMBER
FR: -.40 FL: -.40
RR: -1.0 RL: -1.0

CASTER ( this bothers me)
FL: -1.2 FR: -.10

are the caster settings ok. the care seems to drive fine now.

now that my alignment is good to go. what can i do to improve performance with my setup. Street Car and Occasional drag use.

thanks
platinum.

 

what were your "before" measurements? thats usually on the print out.

as for caster, normally youd want to straighten them out by shimming the radius rods, but its not that big a deal honestly.

i dont like how they toed you in both front and back tho. but im sure itll drive fine.

 

well i said the same thing. like shouldnt the toe be "0" and he showed me some spec manual for my year honda that said ".1" or whaver. so i was like ok.

it really drives 100 times better.

i forget what the original read outs were, and the printer was down on the machine.

im pretty sure they were.

TOE
FL: -.5 FR:-.5
RL: +.2 RR: +.5

CAMBER:
FL: +.5 FR -2.2
RL: -.2 RR: +.8

CASTER
FL: -1.4 FR: -.2

is it worth shimming the radius rods, or just leave it be...

platinum

 

maybe i wasnt clear...


leave it be and dont worry about it.

 

cool.
thanks

dont most people run more camber than that....

platinum.