I know a lot of people dislike Speed Channel 'cause of its owners. However, I have a rave about the new Speed. I've noticed that the announcers aren't saying as much... they are showing flat out AWESOME clips from in-car cameras. WRC - I saw a 2 minute stretch this weekend were not a single announcer said a peep. CART - they showed several in-car shots where all I could hear was 12k on the motor.

If this is how they are going to air motorsport events from now on, I for one am ALL FOR IT!! I'll deal/compromise (like I actually have a choice in the compromise) with the overly-NASCAR tone for more in-car footage like I've seen recently...

Counterpoint.

 

The one good thing I have noticed...

Bad thing:
-prime time NASCAR!
-st00pid ads.... (not that they were good before)

Will

 

I love the WRC coverage - but while watching it last night I did get a bit annoyed because when the announcer did finally say something he really had nothing important to say... "notice the large rear wing which is important for getting the necessary downforce on a course like this..."

I think the reason they are going to very long in-car segments is that it is very inexpensive to produce and fill time...

 

I especially liked the "300 horsepower" comment. 300 HP my a**! Cars with 300 hp don't typically look like they've been shot out of a cannon. I suppose they could tune them for low HP and massive torque though...

The skill level of WRC drivers never ceases to amaze me. My local grocery store has wider aisles than some of those roads! At one point it looked like the course was cutting through someones back yard! Gotta love it.

 

I was able to catch some CART action last night

yshi - who liked the up-shot of the gear shifter

 

I have no complaints about the SPEED channel so far.

When was the last time you saw CART on Speedvision other than last Sunday?? How about Formula Atlantic (other than at the runoffs)? Not to mention the "same-day" WRC coverage with 1 hour coverage for each of the 3 legs. That's awesome! The reason why I think they can show a bunch more WRC onboard is because they *can*. They now cover 1 event in 3 hours (3 legs) as opposed to the 1 hour coverage for one entire event (3 legs) last year. This automatically means more in-car video. The fact that I've already seen round 1 of the Grand-Am Cup is also awesome. On Speedvision you would have to wait for the winter until the whole season is over for them to start broadcasting the races. And when nascar is on there are always 2 options: change channel or shut off the TV.

The WRC cars are in theory supposed to produce around 300 hp. They run an ultra small 45 mm restrictor for this reason. After seeing the many deaths back in the late 80s with the killer unlimited 600-800 hp Group B (I think) rally cars FIA decided to slow the cars down with this restrictors. Still the rumors now are that cars are now producing around 340 hp, not 300. But I'm sure their torque powerbands are made in such a way that they probably make 300+hp from 4K to 7K rpm.

If SPEED could just keep this up, I would be more than satisfied.


[Modified by Hracer, 12:27 PM 3/11/2002]

 

I remember that comment. I have gone out of my way to watch the Tour de Corse. Looking back, I do feel like they did more in-car than usual. I just assumed it was due to the extreme nature of this course more than anything.

They really seem to be on the "rally drivers don't blink" kick lately, with tons of face shots to prove their point. Does it seem like they've put more cameras in the cars?

 

Speed channel has gotten better since the end of Speed week at Daytona, and the Daytona 500.. Really enjoyed watching most the CART race yesterday...

 

They HAVE gotten better since then. The CART and Toyota Atlantic race last night had great coverage. But it's going to take a lot to make me change my mind. They really pissed me off with their NASCAR Daytona coverage - which seemed like 24-7.

But I do have to admit, they've gotten better.

 

That's exactly what they do. WRC cars don't have massive amounts of power, they really do only put out around 300hp. They are just extremely light and tossable, and get that power to the ground extremely well. Think about it - how much hp do those things really need? They never reach straight-line speeds even approaching that of asphalt racing.

 

ehh... I've seen numbers reporting in excess of 500ft-lbs of torque. Make of that what you will.

 

i on the other hand do. since i don't get speedvision zygspeed sends me each GP, thanks again ed, so i just got to see australia over the weekend. the d00d who replaced bob varsha is absolutely terrible. i always thought bob was bad but i'll take him any day of the week over the new guy. i've never heard so much usless and down right incorrect information coming out of an announcers mouth.

he prolly said "maybe montoya is on a no-stop strategy" 5 different times. uh, yeah sure that would be the case if he was in the mood to get disqualified. moron!!!

 

WRC cars are limited - by a statement in the rules, not by any actual technology that I know of - to 300hp. This was in response to criticisms that the GrB cars had gotten too powerful and is really just a public relations move. I don't have anything to back this up but I would be very surprised if they don't actually make plenty more hp than that on an event.

The series started using lots of in- and on-car cameras a couple of years ago for European market consumption. I guess that they were doing a lot of live-feed television and the in-car provides action without the need for editing. It was also suggested to me by someone who has a clue, that this is kind of the same reason that we are getting a lot if in-car content - it is costly and slow to produce a show like they are running and, to get them same-day, this is an answer.

Kirk

(edit - I'm a dork. Hracer did a great job of explaining most of this self)



[Modified by Knestis, 6:52 PM 3/11/2002]

 

they also have extremely tall final drives and very narrow spaces between gear ratios... top speeds of about 125 mph and they use all of it Tall final drive+AWD+big boost = holeshot from hell

They are limited in power by the inlet restrictor they must use.

Ryan

 

Yup, that is very possible with those super high tech motors they run. Remember those cars cost around $500K each. With the small mandated restrictor they use, it is still possible to make tons of torque at lower RPMs. 500 lbs-ft of torque at 3500 rpm for example works out to 500 * 3500/5252 = 333 hp. That is in line with the ~300 hp numbers. The torque probably drops proportionally as the RPMs climb since there is still not that much of air that can get through the small restrictor even at those high boost levels, but I can bet those motors can probably still sustain those 333 hp all the way from 3500 rpm on to max revs.

Oh and speaking of the Tour de Course. Did everyone notice how *little* if any drifting/sliding they were doing in the dry AND even in the wet? Almost none. The only drifts came when they would go over a bump or cut the inside of the road which would in turn destabilize the car and put into a slight drift (sometimes more than I think they wanted). They were using "the racing line" everywhere where the road would be more than 1 car width wide. Some turns were even double apex. Only in the hairpins they would reach for the handbrake to slide it around. But watching those guys drive is unbelievable to say the least.

 

Dare I say my fears were greater than what it has turned out to be (so far)? Eh it's always wise to be afraid of things sinking to the least common denominator.. but at least so far Speedvision has stepped up to the plate regarding great coverage of non-NASCAR racing. And like someone said before, the NASCAR stuff is easy to handle -- change channels, turn it off, etc. So long as Speedvision continues to show good stuff, they'll have me watching a lot of it!

Good job Speedvision! I'm still watching your channel! (by whatever silly name you call it now)

Keep up the good work!

 

The WRC cars use a 34mm restrictor on the turbo. From what I remember around 300 hp is around the theoretical maximum given that restrictor size. The engines are tuned for low and mid range, hardly any top end. Unlike the old Group B cars, the cars don't rev very high either. Most of the power is made between 3000-6000 RPM. The engines are also running pretty high compression for turbo engines, usually around 10:1.

 

In my area, Speedvision shared channel space w/ some outdoor network and something else, yet the channel was about 60% infomercials (and 20% each of the other two).

Now we have about 75% Speed Channel! God bless corporate America If it stayed just like it is, I'd be more than content

 

Up until this weekend, every time I turned on Speed Channel - without fail - something about nasscar was on. Seriously.

This weekend bodes well for the channel though. Even though it was obvius that the announcers were using a borrowed video feed for the CART race, it was better than nasscar.

--Karl, who for the time being gives Speed Channel a :thumbsideways:

 

>>Did everyone notice how *little* if any drifting/sliding they were doing in the dry AND even in the wet? Almost none. <<

I didn't see a ton of all out drifting, but there was plenty of "rotating" to go around. It seems like their version of drifting is so quick that if you blink, you miss it.

To me it seemed there were sections, particularly in villages, where they did hardly any sliding at all, but there were others where they let it all hang out. The camera caught one of Colin's stages when his tires were going away and he was sliding almost the entire time. IMO, they're drifting more than they appear to be. I imagine it's like going for a ridealong with a great driver who appears (trackside) to be in the "traction circle" the whole time. Then from inside the car we realize he's beyond the limits of the tires quite often.

It was also interesting to watch the individual driving styles inside the car, and how they seemed to have relatively little effect on what the outside looked like. I was especially impressed with Colin McRae (sp?) and how quiet his hands were. His movements were so clipped and efficient it looked as if he wasn't driving as hard as the rest of the field. Panizzi, on the other hand, what a maniac! Works for him though...

I'm also curious to know how the teams decide whether to use steering wheel mounted shifters (butterflys, buttons, etc.) or more traditional shifters. Obviously, the Ford Focus team has the $$$ to develop a wheel mounted shifter, so I wonder what they feel the advantage is to their "3 on the tree" style shifter.

 

*** Cable in Fairfax Co. on the upgraded digital network has Speed Channel on 6a-midnight, but they keep cutting over at 11:55 pm to Outdoor Life, thus dropping the final 5 min. finish! I called them and enlightened them of this, and dang some survey called me back later.

I loved the replay comparison of the driving lines overlays showing the progression times/paths from the start for each car, where Makkinen was losing time due to the sliding slicks vs. intermediates.

Gary

 

Yeah I know what you mean by plenty of rotation. Any fast driver on the track will have this, not just in rally. Kleinubing is a perfect example. It's the slight "drifting" that the car does to rotate, BUT does not require counter steering from the driver in the opposite direction of the turn. You know you're going quick around the track when it feels as if the car, particularly the rear end is kind of "floating" behind you. Previously I was referring to the sliding or drifting that has the rear end swinging out with the driver counter steering throughout the turn - that kind of drifting has and will always be slower on tarmac.

I remember that on board video of McRae that you're talking about. The one big slide (with lots of counter steering) happened when he clipped the inside of a right turn, which made the car bounce and sent it in a slide that he had to catch. I'm not sure he wanted exactly that way. Since I first heard of him in '94, McRae has always been my favorite driver by far. Don't know what it is, but I guess his totally relaxed natural driving style has a lot to do with it. And whenever he gets into one of those "on a mission" drives, he is unbeatable by anyone. Over the years I've also noticed he is one of the FEW drivers who admits when he makes mistakes or gets beaten and does not start blaming the suspension, tires, car, weather, etc... when he's really at fault.

I bet if you would average out all the countless hyper left and right steering inputs that Sainz and Panizzi do, you would get the nice constant and smooth steering motions of Mcrae.

 

The NASCAR has to go. NASCAR ISN'T RACING when compared to WRC. Up until the past weekend,

Check out this petition. Take it as you please.


SIGN THE PETITION: Less NASCAR and more racing on Speed Channel! http://www.petitiononline.com/cel21/petition.html