I heard from a guy who seems to know a good amount about Hondas that you can take your standard 3 mount B series kit and drill a few relief holes into each mount, and then fabricate a front mount and end up with a properly positioned B series without the harshness attributed with your standard 3 mount urethane kit.

What are your thoughts?

I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

Please don't turn this into the average "there's no vibrations with mount kits" thread. Whether acknowledged (by all) or not, mount kits vibrate!!!

 

this seems like a pretty good idea, i hate the way bswaps feel for daily driving. The women don't really enjoy it eaither. So bump cause im interested

 

yeah im sick of my keys rattling.and the seat belt warning lights buzzing.

 

the women in my car love the vibration *hint* *hint*

im use to it already. the only problem is drilling holes in it, and the mounts will lose its stiffness. idk maybe its cause im more focused on racing then on comfort but yeah

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civickiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the women in my car love the vibration *hint* *hint*
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lol

 

drilling out the uethane works although you can go too far with that idea, you get a structural failure at a point. start slow, try not going all the way through, like dimples. your design matters too - if three holes are close togther and the others are spread out, thats where it will fail. picture the perferations in a sheet of paper with a tear off - thats why it works.

also, keep in mind the design of the system. the left right mounts are like piviot points, (though the pins arent in that axis). the front - rear dampen and prevent rotation under load. so uppers could be someting close to stock in terms of resistence, no buzz no rotation being the idea.
the fourth mount is for sure a good idea, (dosent need to be poly either)

 

great idea... add wheel hop... i'll have to remember that

 

From my experience, the only vibration I REALLY notice is at idle. This really does not bother me. I would certainly not drill out the urethane on my mounts and cause other possible problems just to deal with this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civickiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the women in my car love the vibration *hint* *hint*

im use to it already. the only problem is drilling holes in it, and the mounts will lose its stiffness. idk maybe its cause im more focused on racing then on comfort but yeah</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the whole point.

My EF is not my race car...I have two other projects that are going to be my 'go real fast cars'.

I just want more daily driving power for my daily, without a lot of harshness.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From my experience, the only vibration I REALLY notice is at idle. This really does not bother me. I would certainly not drill out the urethane on my mounts and cause other possible problems just to deal with this.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Usually this is the only time it's really noticeable.

But I have A/C in my cars. And A/C + a mount kit just murderizes your interior at idle with the load of the a/c on. I'm talking rattle your dashboard bolts out of place vibration. Can't even focus on anything in your rearview mirror because it looks like it's going to rattle itself off. And since I'm stuck in traffic fairly often with the ac on...well, you get the idea.

I've been there in the past, and I hope to never have to go back.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fabrak8rX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">drilling out the uethane works although you can go too far with that idea, you get a structural failure at a point. start slow, try not going all the way through, like dimples. your design matters too - if three holes are close togther and the others are spread out, thats where it will fail. picture the perferations in a sheet of paper with a tear off - thats why it works.

also, keep in mind the design of the system. the left right mounts are like piviot points, (though the pins arent in that axis). the front - rear dampen and prevent rotation under load. so uppers could be someting close to stock in terms of resistence, no buzz no rotation being the idea.
the fourth mount is for sure a good idea, (dosent need to be poly either)

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What do you mean exactly by 'uppers could be something close to stock in terms of resistence'?

If I understand it right, the mount(s) that cause the most vibration are the front and rear. In the case of a mount kit, the very stiff rear needed because they don't use a front mount.

If the rear mount were softened up a bit and a front mount were added to replace some of the structural strength lost, the kit as a whole may idle a lot better, right?

If not, which mounts should I focus on?

Of course, it will have more movement...but this isn't something I'm concerned with. Like I said, I don't drag race my engine; I don't launch my car...wheel hop isn't an issue. It's a daily driver that needs a few more ponies.

Maybe I'll just do like Wes V and mock up a mount kit that uses factory rubber =/

 

Jonathan;

I'd be a little conserned with drilling out the urethane. The problem in my mind is that it's more prone to "ripping" than an item made out of rubber.

Here is a tip, go out to the garage and look at the trailing arm bushings on that 66 Jag! That's what I was looking at when I discovered the jag chassis bushings I used for my mounts.

Wes

 

Hmm, that's something I had not considered.

Maybe drilling in the urethane isn't such a good idea afterall.

Wes, where did you end up ordering your chasis bushings from? I cannot seem to remember.

 

Jonathan;

I got them at the local Jaguar dealer, over the counter. They had them in stock. Part number MNA2370AA. They are for a late model Jag, but I don't know what year or model.

For those that don't know what we are talking about, I built up my own mounts using the old Place Racing mounts for dimensions. I used Jaguar rubber bushings. There are four mounts (I currently have the Place Racing front cross-member).

Below is a link to the page and I've got to up-date it! At the time I wrote it, I hadn't done the engine installation. I've now had the B18C engine in and running for quite some time. There have been NO problems with the mounts and I don't get any vibration except for at a very low idle (800 rpm). I'm going to set the idle higher and at that point, it is exactly what you would expect for a factory installation. I don't drag race and if I did, I'd think about using one of the "engine support" units that you can buy to brace the upper point of the engine (limiting the back and forth movement of the top of the engine).

http://www.performanceforum.co....html

On a side note, if I was to do them again, I wouldn't build them out of stainless steel. It's not necessary and a lot harder to work. I'd also use the dimensions off of the Hasport mounts due to their better placement of the axle angle.

Wes Vann

 

get the street mounts if the others vibrate too much. now idk how bad the street mounts vibrate but just a suggestion

 

check out what tyson did to help wheel hop and vibration https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1124506

 

But that has little to nothing to do with a mount kit swapped B series.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_ED3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's the whole point.

My EF is not my race car...I have two other projects that are going to be my 'go real fast cars'.

I just want more daily driving power for my daily, without a lot of harshness.

Usually this is the only time it's really noticeable.

But I have A/C in my cars. And A/C + a mount kit just murderizes your interior at idle with the load of the a/c on. I'm talking rattle your dashboard bolts out of place vibration. Can't even focus on anything in your rearview mirror because it looks like it's going to rattle itself off. And since I'm stuck in traffic fairly often with the ac on...well, you get the idea.

I've been there in the past, and I hope to never have to go back.


What do you mean exactly by 'uppers could be something close to stock in terms of resistence'?

If I understand it right, the mount(s) that cause the most vibration are the front and rear. In the case of a mount kit, the very stiff rear needed because they don't use a front mount.

If the rear mount were softened up a bit and a front mount were added to replace some of the structural strength lost, the kit as a whole may idle a lot better, right?

If not, which mounts should I focus on?

Of course, it will have more movement...but this isn't something I'm concerned with. Like I said, I don't drag race my engine; I don't launch my car...wheel hop isn't an issue. It's a daily driver that needs a few more ponies.

Maybe I'll just do like Wes V and mock up a mount kit that uses factory rubber =/</TD></TR></TABLE>


sorry im not helping so much - 90% of what i deal with is scratch built so thats where im coimg from, that point of view may have little value here.

neverthless, by "resistence" im talking material durometer. ive got about a dozen test bungs / mounts that we use to mock up a frame. not nessecerily tring to avoid buzzing, but theres a sweet spot where the physical load of the motor sort of floats in the "yoke" the left - right mounts, while the front - rears are tuned to have more spring type resistence as you apply the load, (thats the motor rocking back and forth, not related to wheel hop) that part is calculated on the lever length by the amount of force a given motor can generate on that part. big power or force requires higher durometer, but thats a general statement as well, theres other ways of solving the issue.

and on machining polyeurathane; it all depends on what type your using. I believe the kits people use are most made of castable grade, not sure the specifics. i usually use around a 80A which has a tensile strength of about 6500 psi. you can make bushings or whatever out of it - its not going to tear or crumble. delrin is tough as nails too, nicer to machine. you can get either to fail, but thats just bad design, not bad material.

if youre near factory type hp ratings, then using all the factory mounts will treat you the best, theres no sense in re-engineering whats already been figured out.

 

Thanks for the insight.

As far as the urethane...i noticed there's a kit out that uses 65A. Is that relatively soft; soft enough to not cause the vibration these kits that are like 80A cause?

 

65 is softer for sure but it all comes down to the form. i dont know the durometer on the oe mounts, it would be a good point of comparison, except its a different material and form. by form i mean the design of the isolator itself. a medium durometer mount can be very smooth if there is enough material to dampen the vibration, thats where the oe ones get into the various thicknesses and U shapes, etc, they do the job of a big block of material without actually being too physically big.

if its just a cylinder shape, like most are, it would probably have to be a lower durometer yet - but thats just a guess, it comes down to you gota work from known points (at least 2) with the least amount of variables.

hope that helps -

 

The vibration has always been an issue for me.

I would think that some large holes would need to be drilled into the polyurethane to allow them to deflect enough to reduce vibration (if at all). Still, they would probably crumble/break up at that point. Guess you'd need to try it to know for sure.

What about modifying the place Racing/Ebay style steel mounts to use the jaguar rubber stock mounts? That would probably be easier than constructing jigs and actually recreating each mount like wes outlines on his page. I think i might try that.

 

Butterball;

There is no getting around having to make jigs! The second you cut off the existing bushing housing from the place racing mount, you have lost the location where the new one has to be welded.

One thing should be noted about the jag bushings that I used. They are an "offset" bushing. This doesn't matter when fabricating mounts due to just doing a "counter offset" to the main outter shell.

Wes