Just a heads up for any of you guys interested in Dynamatting your car. An acquanintance of mine sells something that is equivalent or better than Dynamat Extreme. It's pretty flexible (unlike regular dynamat) and is so sticky that if you are installing on a hot days it's too sticky because it sticks to itself. It goes for $70 for 62 ft.

I believe he'll send you a free sample if you're interested just so you can see if it's what it's suppose to be. His Email is raam@raamaudio.com.

By the way, I'm not making any money off this. Hell he doesn't even know I'm posting this. I just realized that people pay up the nose for dynamat and it sucks so I figured this might help some people out.

 

Raammat is a very nice product and Rick (the guy who sells it) is just another car audio nut trying to help everyone out and make some money on the side.

It's probably one of the better alternatives to Dynamat. There is also Hi-Temp Mastic from Mcmaster.com. It's dynamat original without the silkscreened logo. I have had good results with that product as well.

 

Cool you know Rick too. Are you on ECA or SoundDomain?

 

I don't know Rick personally, only through the boards. I've been talking with Matt Borgahart (sp) with Image and with Mic Wallace (MicS10 on the boards) about my setup. I'm on both ECA and SD, and have been looking at Raammat and Arc Audio for the newest install. I posted on another thead here, but instead of mucking up that one, I'll use this one.

I'm running ID CD1 Pro MH's, IDQ6 (2 ohm), and one MAX and I need amps. It's between one of the following three setups:

1. Arc 4150 for the horns and mids and one Arc 2500 for the MAX
2. Two Arc 4150's - sub the 2500 above for the 4150. I know it's less power, but it's more versatile for down the road.
3. PG500.4Ti for the mids and horns, and a PG600.2 for the MAX

The only problem with PG is that they are outrageously expensive. The nice thing is that they do put you in a lower IASCA class (not that I'm going to compete, but you never know). I have heard good things about the 4150 over a comparable pair of 2100's. Somthing about the circuitry in the 4150 that is different than the other amps. Don't know if it's marking BS, but I trust what I have heard from all the Arc people.

The head will either be the Nak 45z or an Eclipse 5441. I'm running all PG signal processing (Line Driver - if necessary, EQ230 dual 30 band mono eq, and a 3-way active x-over with 24dB slopes)

What amps would you buy, and can you get me pricing from your Arc dealer friend?


[Modified by rcurley55, 12:44 AM 3/11/2002]

 

Sounds like you're gonna have a pretty nice setup.

As for amp recommendations, I wouldn't run the 4150 with the MAX. It just seems like a waste to get that expensive and high output sub and not pair it with something that will make it sound it's best. Of course you could drive each VC of the MAX with a bridged channel from the 4150 but level matching would be hard unless you are willing to just leave it at zero for the gains.

Can't comment on the PG's I'm afraid. I havne't listened to them.

Ideally you'd have three amps, 2 4150's and a 2500 but I know that's a lot of money and space to be looking at.

Also regarding the circuitry differences between the 4150 and 2500, there is a difference you can hear especially when you are comparing the mains. Not huge, but still there. On a sub you can't really tell between the two other than the power.

Drop my friend a line at lshing@dslextreme.com, he can give you more info than I can. If you're worried about his credibility, he's on ECA and is a well established user there.

 

Why would you run 2 4150's and a 2500? Seems like an extra amp. The hardest thing is matching the output of the amps to the horns and the mids. The mids should run 3 times the power as the horns. The horns are 8 ohms, and have an efficiency of around 106-109. The mids are 2 ohms and can take up to 150w.

Thats what got me to thinking one 4150 - 40ish W to each horn, and 160 to each mid. Then 1kW to the MAX or another 4150 to a dual 4 ohm MAX...that's about 640W. Tough decision, but I think that the 2500 would be a bit better setup. Too bad that they don't make a big 2 channel that is between the 2100 and the 2500. Something that was 600x1 would be ideal for me.

I'm still on the stock electrical, so amperage is a big deal for me.

 

why use dynamat? i just tape bathroom towels on where it needs to stop rattling and it works just as good....altho it looks a lil awkward

 

Ack it's been a long day, I'm not too familar with the ID speakers so I didn't know they were different ohms. Plus I know squat about horns. In that case I'd say the 4150 would be fine.

I'm one of those guys who likes to drive his components with about 300 watts per channel, which is why 80 per channel didn't seem like much to me.

 

40 to a driver with a sensitivity of 106+ will tear your head off!!!

They get extremely loud, and i'll have a tough time keeping them in check as is. Fabricating headroom by adding power is always nice in car audio. I'm a big proponent of buying as much power as you possibly can (in most cases).

If you are interested in horns and how they work, go over to elitecaraudio.com and read the install guides or tutorials provided by audionutz. They are a good read for the most part. Unfortunately, he propogates some myths about horns (they need tons of eq to sound good, no stage width, etc) but all in all his articles are very good.

 

redteg....are you joking? If not, let me know and I can explain to you why mass loading works, and why bathroom towels are not ideal.

I hate the internet....it's too hard to weed out sarcasm

 

wat is mass loading? i taped a square of bathroom towel on the back of my license plate and it works fine....

 

Ohhh, I see what you are getting at. Well, you will run into one problem when you tape a towel back there. It's going to retain water, so it will probably mildew and maybe even cause your lisence plate to rust...

Mass loading is when you take a material like Raammat and add it to a panel to change it's resonant frequency, and keep it from vibrating. By adding mass to a panel, it makes it harder to vibrate. It's sorta the same theory as using a 2 x 4 for a bridge, when you put it wiht the 4" wide side facing up, and try to walk across it, it will bend easily, but if you put the 2" side facing up, and walk across it, it's solid as a rock. Well the same is analogous with bending metal. The more mass you add to it the harder it is to vibrate.

Sorry, but I've been working all day, so that explanation is probably a bit jumbled. If you don't get it, I'll try to explain better tomorrow.

 

Hmm... is there a reason why you chose horns? I'm tempted to try them out as I've yet to find a tweeter that suits my tastes. I'm playing my Rainbow Pros through my home system right now and they sound alright.

But then I am comparing to my Von Schweikerts, so maybe that isn't so fair.

 

Honestly, I got the horns because they were different. Also, they are undoubtly more dynamics than tweeter, and you can run them all the way down to about 1kH. This helps to contribute to the "point-sorce" therory that is prevalent in audio. Also, they image and stage almost perfectly out of the box. You can run them wiht only 20W and they will get very loud.

There are a lot of drawbacks though. People complain about EQ, that all has to do with the install. IF you can kill some of the hot frequencies and use a dashpad, you can get a good stage height, and remove some of the "nasal" character that they are supposed to have. They are also difficult to mount. They hang under the dash, and you need to get them as far back as you can. Thankfully, the Mini-horns are pretty small, but we will see how they work in a Civic Si (clutch pedal will be a bitch). Also, I got them for under 300 shipped from an authorized dealer.

From what I hear they are nothing short of divine if you get them right. I get them tomorrow, so that will be the real test if they will fit.

 

I think I'm going to try some home audio drivers. Unfortuately I don't have the patience to tweak with audio (too subjective, it's sometimes hard to tell if this or that is better). I like how home audio is is plug it in and it sounds great.

 

You mean some DIY loudspeakers?

That's actually tougher than car audio, unless you are following a kit. Crossover design is very, very important and will make or break a design.

I'm going to be building an Audax Home Theater pretty soon. I want to mess with some Vifa, Scan Speak, Focal, and maybe even Seas drivers when I get the chance.

 

So basically all dynamt(or someting like it) does is make the panels heavier in your car so they don't vibrate? I thought dynamat acutally reflected the sound in the car, or reflected sounds on the outside from comming inside the car. What do you guys think of b-quiet?

Thanks!!

 

you got it jamal. Essentially every panel in your car is like a little speaker. When it vibrates, you get sound...that is bad. The more you can reduce vibration, the quieter your car will be. I would assume that it does help in insulating your car to some extent, but no where near what putting some type of insulation in your car would help. I've seen people use carpet pads, similar to what you would use in a home carpet install to quiet their rides.

B-quiet is another cheaper dynamat alternative. I haven't used it, but it's suppoesd to be pretty good.

 

Hey, I just noticed you live in SF as well. If you'd like to have a listen at the Arc stuff before you buy let me know, my friend is in Berkeley. We have some extra Arcs lying around...

 

Where's his shop, what's it called, and what else does he carry?

 

Actually he doesn't have a shop, he does it more on the side. If you're looking for a shop that could do the install or something more advanced then he wouldn't be the one.

But if you want to just have a listen at the amp and get it at a good if not great price, he would be a good choice.

 

do u think ill need ur raamat to stop vibration from 2 12"JL W3's, 500/1 JL amp? or is that not enough to make too much vibration?

 

That's gonna vibrate dude...

BTW, the RAAMmat 60 is like $100+shipping for 62.5 sq ft.... I need some because my 12L7 is kicking the shiznit out of my Si's trunk, but that's a lot of dough, too....

 

Shipping is not 100+. Shipped from San Diego to San Fran was like 10 dollars, very reasonable for something that weighs 20 pounds.

You'll need to dynamat the trunklid to stop the most vibration. Do your doors too if you really want to stop most of it.

I've pretty much raammatted about 150 sq ft of the stuff into my car. The doors, trunk, floorpan... made a huge difference for me.

 

Nope...definitely don't need a shop...I do everything myself. Ahhh I love the smell of resin in the morning!!!

How can I get in touch with either of the two of you to do some auditioning?