Could someone help me understand horsepower and torque. I have a 92 CRX that I want to do a motor swap. I have 2 engines available.
My First Choice is : b16b Type R 185 hp 118 Ft/Lb Torque.
My second Choice is: B18C1 Integra GSR Engine 170 Hp 130 Ft/Lbs Torque

I know the b16b has more horsepower, but the b18c1 has more torque. My main goal is to make a 12 Second All motor CRX with the least amount of money. Which engine is my best choice. Which engine has more potential? Horsepower and torque are confusing, help me understand.

 

torque is what moves you...horse power is a math formula of TORQUE X RPM DIVIDED BY 5252

b16 tq118 x rpm 8250 / 5252 = hp185

GSR tq130 x rpm7100 / 5252 = hp175

in conclusion the GSR is more eficient and has more room for improvement.
hope that helped let me know if you need it explained more in detail.

 

All other things being equal, theres no replacement for displacement...

Yeah the b16b makes more HP, but slap that head on the GSR and voila'...You gotta b16b killa(in the same car of course)..

Get the C1

 

Torque is what moves you...torque at the wheels. This might be confusing, but it's the engine with more flywheel horsepower that will be putting down more torque at the wheels, regardless of how much flywheel torque it has. Generally, horsepower to weight ratio is a good indicator of how fast a car can accelerate.

That being said, theoretically the b16b motor will accelerate your car faster....although people claim that it's harder to launch and control. Also, it's very important to not be afraid to rev the motor. A lot of people will rev it to 3k and then say that it's slow. It's built to rev to 8000+, and you won't hurt it by doing so.

As for ultimate potential...I don't know. The B18C probably has more, but it depends what you do to it. Keep in mind that the more you deviate from the engine's original design, the more durability/reliability you're probably throwing out the window.

There is plently of replacements for raw displacement. Turbos, superchargers, nitrous, and technology in general can fill in many gaps that lack of displacement can produce.

 

Now if I'm wrong about this, may the all motor gods strike me down, but you could drop a B18C5 crank in the B16B, as it is just a destroked motor from the factory. Then you can "have your cake and eat it too"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by black_dohc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now if I'm wrong about this, may the all motor gods strike me down, but you could drop a B18C5 crank in the B16B, as it is just a destroked motor from the factory. Then you can "have your cake and eat it too"</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm surprised he didn't list that as an option. Maybe due to price. I never understood why Honda went out of their way to make the B16B. Seems like they took an extra couple steps just to end up with a weaker motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm surprised he didn't list that as an option. Maybe due to price. I never understood why Honda went out of their way to make the B16B. Seems like they took an extra couple steps just to end up with a weaker motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

(OT)I'm guessing that they didn't want the CTR to out do the ITR. A moot point, as the new Si is better than the new RSX-S in my opinion, having a limited slip and all that stock

 

I personally feel the B18C1 is the better way to go. Not only is torque greater. But power is not too far off. Also keep in mind that if you get a JDM motor (178HP), the power gap is narrowed considerably. But if you are going for 12 seconds, you already know that you are going to have to do some pretty heavy mods. And in modified form, the B18C1 is by far the better motor.

 

Speaking as someone who has owned both, I would STRONGLY reccomend the B16B. Be prepared for a complete lack of power under 4500 RPM though. Of course the high redline, effortless revs, and the for more "refined" feeling are well worth it.

I suppose I should add that this comment really only applies if you are getting the Type R tranny to go along with it. I'm sure that linked to an LS or GSR trans the 16B would be alot less satisfying.

IMO there is more to a motor than the power rating.

 

I say go B16b you will have alot of fun bangin on GSR's like crazy i have one myself and i couldnt be more happy

 

ehh B16B you have to rev the **** out of to get anywhere...

the stock GsR will benifit more from cams/ and other minor bolt ons....

theres nothin like more displacement when you can have it..

 

GSR.

 

The whole "you have to rev it to get anywhere" comment is a bit silly. The B16B is DESIGNED to operate at higher RPMs. After driving it for a week you get used to shifting at around 4k in normal driving. Its not a huge deal.

 

I think the b16b was designed for one of their race classes and yeah drop in the type-r crank and you got displacement(1.8L) and higher compression(12.5:1) (lots of money for that) and not to sure about the tranny gears on the b16b don't know if it has the same final drive as the Type-r. All depends on the MONEY! What do you want to do with either motor? What are your goals is the most important question.

 

Personally I would go with the B16B.

Heres why:

B16B has a prepped head, cams, oil cooler, better geared tranny.

The only advantage of the B18C1 is its displacement. As mentioned, the B16B block is effectively identical to a ITR block, only difference being the crank. Swap a crank and you have a nice high CR 1.8L N/A B motor and this can be done without removing the head or the motor from the car, simply drop the oil pan and dive in.

The money you would spend with cams and valve train would probably exceed the cost of a crank, and you still would not have the nice gearing of the CTR tranny or the oil cooler. (wait, do GSR's have oil coolers?)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally I would go with the B16B.

Heres why:

B16B has a prepped head, cams, oil cooler, better geared tranny.

The only advantage of the B18C1 is its displacement. As mentioned, the B16B block is effectively identical to a ITR block, only difference being the crank. Swap a crank and you have a nice high CR 1.8L N/A B motor and this can be done without removing the head or the motor from the car, simply drop the oil pan and dive in.
The money you would spend with cams and valve train would probably exceed the cost of a crank, and you still would not have the nice gearing of the CTR tranny or the oil cooler. (wait, do GSR's have oil coolers?)</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think the rods are longer in the b16b, so you would still have to remove the head and all.

Also if he is planning on a 12 sec CRX he would probably benefit more from the added displacement. Which I thought BTW the CRX stopped being made in 91. Do you have a CX civic or a crx?

 

94-95 GSR has oil cooler

 

1991 was the last year they made the crx I do believe. Must be a typo!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xEnderx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The whole "you have to rev it to get anywhere" comment is a bit silly. The B16B is DESIGNED to operate at higher RPMs. After driving it for a week you get used to shifting at around 4k in normal driving. Its not a huge deal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

im sorry let me reword, You have to rev the **** out of it to make any power.....

revs=kills engines

Several of my friends went from b16B's to B18Cs and loved the driving experience alot more

I agree the Tranny is way better than a GsR but thats about it.....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally I would go with the B16B.

Heres why:

B16B has a prepped head, cams, oil cooler, better geared tranny.

The only advantage of the B18C1 is its displacement. As mentioned, the B16B block is effectively identical to a ITR block, only difference being the crank. Swap a crank and you have a nice high CR 1.8L N/A B motor and this can be done without removing the head or the motor from the car, simply drop the oil pan and dive in.

The money you would spend with cams and valve train would probably exceed the cost of a crank, and you still would not have the nice gearing of the CTR tranny or the oil cooler. (wait, do GSR's have oil coolers?)</TD></TR></TABLE>

You have to remove the engine or trans to change a crank and you have to remove the head to replace the rods/pistons...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cruizinmax &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think the rods are longer in the b16b, so you would still have to remove the head and all.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


the valve train is better than a GsR valve train, but not even close to being the best..all of it (except the valves) needs to be upgraded including the cams to make any MORE decent power...

stock vs stock... i still choose a GsR


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GSR.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the man has spoken





Modified by onepoint6i at 11:08 PM 11/17/2005

 

Alright alright, cut me some slack. . . I Forgot about the rod length. . . I don't do this for a living, just thinking off the top of my head . .

Ultimately, it depands on what you plan to do with the motor and the application.

If it were my decision, which it isn't, I would go for the B16B. I goals are for a fun street car. I look at if from two perspectives: Headwork only and bottom end work.

If you limit to headwork only (cams, valvetrain, P&P, etc), I feel the B16B will come out on top from. Me personally, on the B16B I would upgrade valvetrain and cams and call it a day. If you do the same on the B18, it will most likely out power and obviously out-torque the B16B, but I believe the B16B will still be faster (installed in same chassis) as the gearing of the CTR tranny proabably make up for any power handicap a modded GSR motor may have, not to mention that short geared tranny increased the fun factor. As mentioned, you have an oil cooler and a OE ported head, so you motor will breath nicely and probably live longer than spinning that GSR. IMO: B16B wins

Now if you plan to crack the bottom end open, then the B18 may be your weapon of choice, the GSR short block can be upgraded with pistons for higher CR (with motor still installed if desired). If I crack the B16 bottom end, I would want to up the stroke. Now you are talking a crank and rods at minimum and as I was corrected (obviously now that I think it out) the motor must be pulled, or at least the transmission to remove the crank fully. Consider price difference in the work here. Things start to get expensive. IMO: B18c1 wins. Hmmm. . . I still wish I had that CTR tranny. . . that certainly increases the fun factor.

 

I agree about the trans..its one dime of a piece...

 

Being that your working with a crx, the b16 is the way to go. Torqe is better for the heavier cars to get their fat asses in gear (Crv, Prelude) the high rev b16 is alot nicer when out in a light weight vehicle that does not require alot of torque to get it moving. Thats just my 2 cents though.

 

yeah i know wat u mean about the CTR tranny it does make up for the power handicap i love mah gearing on mah CTR motor. Just wonderin if u up the displacement on the CTR would I still be able to drive it daily??

 

well if you have the gas for it and it is built right there should be no reason it couldn't be a daily driver(one fun daily driver too!)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BLaCkMaNEg6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Just wonderin if u up the displacement on the CTR would I still be able to drive it daily??</TD></TR></TABLE>

No reason why not. . . You can up the displacement with OE parts. I see no reason for decreased reliability or a "poor" daily driver.