Come May or June I'll be putting a roll cage (4pt) in my 89 CRX. I will be using a harness as well but my question is how many people use the harness as their everyday seat belt? Is there anyway to retain the stock seat belts? Harnesses can be cumbersome especially for people who aren't used to them. Anyone have any input?
Thanks
Evan

 

On most states, the 4or5 point belts are not legal. If you run the stock seat, you should not have any problem using either belt. If you are putting in an aftermarket seat, some have a hole you can use to mount the stock hardware. Or just drill a hole in the tunnel to mount the stock mechanism.

 

Don't use a harness on the street. You won't be able to move around enough for daily driving. You also shouldn't wear a harness without a helmet. Just use the OEM belt for street time.

 

cool, that's what I wanted to know
Evan

 

i have mine rigged for use with both, but i actually use the harness 90 percent of the time now, especially on higher-speed trips. I got pulled over while wearing them for speeding, state trooper didn't mind, no foul (and just a warning ) Everyone told me i'd have trouble looking around etc, my visibility is pretty much the same (my rear view is laughably small with the wing, rollbar, and crossbrace in the way )

 

For sure! Now add padding to the upper hoop and cross bar, a fire extinguisher, and a camera mount, LOL! I can't see a damn thing!

-231, who wonders why some racecars have big rear-view mirrors that look straight into the cage


[Modified by ITR#231, 11:20 PM 3/9/2002]

 

do some research on miror laws and you will find that you do not need a rear view mirror at all if you have both side view mirrors

you also really should not even have to turn your head to check your mirrors, it should be a periphial vision type deal

 

As far as I know Schroth is the only DOT approved harness.

 

I use my harness during long trips or high speed highway cruising... or spirited country road jaunts.
What determines if you can or cannot retain the oem seatbelts is really your seats because the seat rails are where the buckle attaches to. I can still use my oem seatbelts with my Sparco Ultras because I mounted these seats tot he oem sliders/floor mounts.
Harnesses are a PITA for short trips, they just get in the way. I make a lot of short pickups/deliveries for my job and when on short drives I rarely use the harness.
-autopower race rollbar, sparco ultras, schroth harnesses-

 

"soyboy" huh? like the ravioli? you aren't vegan are you? If you are, Go Vegan Power!

 

yeah, i was confused for a minute after i put the padding on..."i could of sworn i had SOME visibility above the wing when i moved my head around"....at least the mirrors are motorized so i can scope out stuff before backing up if i'm strapped in

 

Why?

 

Because your head (or at least mine) is not FIA approved. Roll bar or not, that roof is coming down to meet your helmet (or your head).

 

Ummm, I don't follow this train of thought. My head has a good 6" spacing between the top of head and the top of the roll cage. I would definately wear a full harness if I had a full cage in a car. All the three point would do is allow my body to move dramatically forward before locking in and greatly increases my chances of striking the front hoop/dash bar (or in the case of a rollbar, make contact with the roof as the A pillar collapses if it does). Also, if you even have only a roll bar hoop, your seat (race bucket or no) has no chance of breaking backward which is the only way you will avoid making contact with the roof if it were to collapse beyond the height of the roll bar top (as the driver) - good reason to stay as close to that hoop as possible with the harnesses. Now if you don't have at least a roll bar, DO NOT WEAR A FREAKIN' HARNESS AS YOUR HEAD BECOMES THE HIGHEST STATIC POINT IN A ROLLOVER AND YOU GREATLY INCREASE THE RISK OF SPINAL INJURY, HELMET OR NOT.

 

So basically what your saying is:

With a three-point harness, in the case of a roll-over, my body and thus my head would be able to (for lack of a better word) smush me down in towards the car.

Whereas a full harness would not allow my body to slump and thus all the force would go directly to my head and neck.

Correct?

See that wasn't so hard!

 

All I am saying is:

If you DO NOT have a cage or roll bar - don't ever ever wear a harness (if the car is moving)

If you HAVE a roll bar or cage - you don't have the concerns wearing a harness (read: spinal compression) regardless of what you have on your head. It would be a good idea to wear a helmet but that is protecting you from a lot of things, none of which are the roof of the car.

Edit: yes, the three point AND a factory seat (or any adjustable back seat) allows you to fold and "smush" out of the way of the collapsing roof. A race bucket is fixed, you would be able to move toward the center of the car but the seat back will not collapse to aide you.

Edit 2: I know a lot of auto-xers will wear a torso harness or 4-5-6 pt harness sans rollbar/cage in an autox situation and that would definately contradict my "ever ever" statement - I defer to them on auto-x but I personally will never wear a harness sans bar/cage.




[Modified by phat-S, 9:20 PM 3/11/2002]

 

What Phat-S said...I agree with what he said.

 

First if all, let me admit that I am extremely jealous of you if you have 6" between your head and the top of the bar. I am much closer to 1-2" with a race bucket, and I would LOVE that much head room. If I had 6" up there, it would likely not occur to me that I might need a helmet with a harness as long as the bar is there. So for people like me, I stand by my statement. However, if you have 6" or more, I agree with yours.

You bring up another interesting point, however, and that is the halo. I would also not like to be near that halo without a helmet, again because my head must be much closer than yours. Hell, I'd hit my bare head on the halo in any kind of accident, not just a rollover. So my generalizations would be this:

-no bars, no harness.
-midget with a roll bar and a harness needs no helmet
-the rest of us with a roll bar and a harness need a helmet
-anyone with a halo needs a helmet

What risks you choose to take are up to you. We all know what's safe and what's not, and we make our decisions based on the chances we're willing to take. I used to use a harness with no roll bar to autocross. Sometimes I'll use a harness with no helmet on the street. Sometimes there's two people in the driver's seat with no seatbelt at all

 

With mounting a 5 or 6 point harness and retaining the stock belts, just get the snap in ends for the lapbelts and then replace the factory bolt that holds the belts to the floor with the cast eyebolt that you can order with the belts. This allows both the stock belts and racing harness lap belts to share the same mounts in the chassis.

I would not recommend drilling a separate hole for the racing lapbelts due to strength issues. Use the OEM mount if at all possible. The factory spends a lot of time designing the seat belt mounts for strength.

Any holes that are drilled for mounting the crotch strap, for example MUST be backed up with a very large and strong flat washer so it will not pull out of the floor.

Make sure to fasten the shoulder harnesses to the roll bar just behind the driver's seat.

Good luck

 

Aleph has a great write-up on installing a harness on his site here.

One question, Aleph, does the eyebolt in the stock bolt location rub the center console?

 

I can't speak for Aleph, but mine do not rub. However, there is at least one more teg in my area that has (what appears to be) the same bolts, and they rub on the carpet. Nothing comes close to the console, since the bolt is down below the console level at the carpet.

 

That is a great article...... 's ^

 

Nope, doesn't rub. Amazingly, everything in my car fit, i have a few mm between the Evo "wing" and the door, and a few mm between the seat and the center console. The console opens without interference. Just like that chick in the Safe-Quip adds in GrassRoots Motorsports, i feel naked without my harnesses now.

 

Well, here's another scenario. You've replaced your steering wheel (w/ airbag) with an aftermarket wheel (no airbag).
(And we're talking about daily driving)
Ok, it has been disputed that wearing your harness without a helmet will increase your chance of damaging your spin and head in a roll-over.
But considering that roll-overs in a daily driving situation only make up 3-5% of major accidents.
So given a side-impact or head-on collision, I would assume you would better protected in a full harness. (given the fact you have no soft cushy airbag)

ITR #231 said “What risks you choose to take are up to you.”

Personally I feel I would be taking more of a risk by not wearing the harness, even with an airbag.


[Modified by mrlegoman, 6:01 AM 3/13/2002]