I know the 3rd gen integra is heavier stock than the 2nd gen, but if both were completely gutted for race only application would the 2nd gen still be lighter. I have a 90 integra LS that I'm thinking of starting a slow build up on, but I just want to make sure I'm starting from the right place. Does anyone here race gen 2 integras? How do you like them on the track?

Thanks

-Chris

 

For what type of competition is the car being prepared?

 

Keep in mind the 3rd gen Integra will also be noticeably stiffer - a stiffer chassis is a better place to start. As with a stronger engine and better aftermarket support.

 

That's not really what a guy who owns a gen 2 wants to hear, but thanks for the feedback.

-Chris

 

So if I had my gen 2 fully prepped for road racing including a full welded roll cage would the gen 3 still have a significant advantage?

And part b, is this worth my trouble or should I wait and buy a car better suited to the task?

-Chris

 

Some series limit the year of the car to within 5 years (Speed World Challenge)

But thats pro... I think grassroots stuff there is no limit.

I would definately go with 3rd gen. There is so much more newer technology and support for that chassis.

 

Again, what are you trying to accomplish. In SCCA Club Racing, the 2nd gen non-VTEC competes in ITA. The 2nd gen GS-R and 3rd gen GS-R both compete in ITS, which is signigficantly faster.

As listed in the 2001 GCR:
1990-1993 Acura Integra 2480lbs
1992-1993 Acura Integra GSR 2680lbs
1994-1995 Acura Integra 3-door 2555lbs
1994-1995 Acura Integra 3-door VTEC 2690lbs

Whether or not the published weights accurately reflect the vehicles actual weight is not known. The SCCA comp board has chosen some interesting weights for certain cars (Improved Touring is not supposed to have competition adjustments, but I cannot imagine how some weights were determined unless they were picked in an effort to equalize cars).

 

Thanks a lot crack Monkey, I'm actually from Canada and I don't know how our rules compare to CACC rules and as I understand it they might be changing a bunch of rules soon anyway, at least in Solo. But that gives me an idea anyway.

Can anybody comment though on whether or not the g2 integra is a good platform to build a club race car from?

 

Well I can't really say about club racing but I'm currently moddifiying my '90 GS to the limits of EP class...which will probably later on go to D Mod class. Target weight of around 2,000-2,100 lbs. Of course I'm doing lots of fun stuff like removed the entire moon roof system, gutting and lightening the doors, lightening the hood and removing the hinges and front latching mechanism (will use 4 hoodpins - 2 front, 2 rear...), removing the ABS system, getting a lighter battery (miata aftermarket one most likely), removing the charging system, switching to Lexan windshield and rear window (maybe side windows later on), and using a 5 gallon racing fuel cell. The dash has completely been removed and I will be adding a 4-point roll bar and lightweight Kirkey aluminum roadrace seats. I'm pretty sure I can get it to at least 2,100 lbs no problem...it will probably take way too much money to get it down to 2,000 or less.

For roadracing it will be much tougher to get the weight that low, not to mention not being worth it if it's below the minimum.

It would be nice to see more G2's as full blown racecars! Everybody and their cousin uses G3's it seems....


[Modified by Vracer111, 11:54 PM 3/10/2002]

 

Thanks for the response Vracer. I agree, g2's don't get nearly enough love. It's good to see another believer. There's a guy that lives in my town with a g2 gs-r and he's gutted the thing. I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet so I don't know how much weight he's carrying but I know he hasn't done any lexan and he's still got the dash and stuff. Sweet car though.

btw, what engine are you running? I'm trying to decide whether to build up my b18a or swap in a vtec power plant. All that's pretty far down the road though, I'm just working on getting my car to handle right first.

 

Yeah I'm being fanatical about the weight since it will be an autocross only G2 in the prepared/mod classes. Anything that doesn't need to be in the car won't - Alternator, ABS system, trim, seals, wiring, studs, etc... Even going to cut off the welded on bracket that aren't needed anymore because of the removal of items (moonroof, rear seats, and dash). Nice thing is that all of this won't cost a thing....free added performance.

Right now it still has the original B18A with nearly 190,000 miles on it. I plan on rebuilding the motor - maybe getting a modded bottom end for a B-18A/B if I can find a good one in the classifieds section. I don't want to mess with VTECH really as I've gotten to grow fond of the B18A (plus I'd like to say I'm racing on the original motor/block of the car....) Main thing I need though is a better transmission than the LS one- either a G2 GSR one or a late model Civic SI or Type R one...don't care if it's hydro or cable - I already converted my car from automatic to five speed, cable to hydraulic is no big deal.

 

That sounds awesome Vracer. A couple questions. What did you replace the moonroof with, and where did you get it. I'm thinking of doing that since I imagine the glass and the motor and stuff must weigh quite a bit and having that much weight at the highest point of the car sucks too.

Second, I've been thinking about replacing my transmission as well. The thing is that where I autoX it's a pretty small area and so I've never had to shift to 3rd. From my rough calculations, most of the vtec trannys would only allow about 80-85 hm/h (about 50-53 mph) at redline in second gear. That would probably mean that I'd be getting into 3rd for just a couple seconds each run, and it seems like I'd be wasting more time shifting than what I'd make up with taller ratios. Any opinions?

 

Hey Robin,

It is Marc from Vancouver and I think I own the red D/SP GSR you are talking about. The car is not near fully gutted but I have done some weight reduction and custom fabrication. At present the car weighs 2350 lbs and second gear will get me to just about to 60 mph or 93 kmp at 8000 rpm with 205 X 50 X 15 Kumho V700. I recently removed my ABS system and in the next 3 weeks will be installing some Wilwood Dynalite calipers and GC Advanced Design dampers, which should knock off another 20 lbs or so. The G2 integra makes a much better track car than autocrosser. Be sure to come out to VCMC’s closed club events on the 23 and 31.

 

The non-VTEC 2nd gens do very well in SCCA ITA competition, where they run against CRX Si, 1st gen RX-7, 8 valve 240SX, etc. The chassis is good, parts are readily available, and the engine responds well to allowable mods.

[edit]For autocross, the car would probably do well regionally in D-Street Prepared, but is likely outpowered by the GSR variants. Again, I'm refering to SCCA rules, as those are the ones I race under.[/edit]

As for removing the sunroof - make sure it's legal before you do it. If it is, go ahead, as it is a lot of weight way up high. Just remove all the crap and pop rivet a sheet of metal in place, then use some filler and paint to make look nice. Under the scca rules, you could do it, but would have to replace the entire roof with that of a non-moonroof car.

Same for the tranny - make sure a swap is legal (it is not under SCCA rules). If it is, check the gearing to be sure you will get the desired effect. Most of the time, I use only 2nd gear in my RX-7. Start in 1st, shift to 2nd somewhere around teh first corner, and leave it there. The only exceptions are really slow U bends and really long striaghts on large lots.

Al


[Modified by Crack Monkey, 12:01 PM 3/12/2002]

 

Yeah, Marc, you're is the car I was talking about. I love it. Mine will be heading in that direction over the next few years but it has to fill way too many roles right now for me to make it as good as it an be. All the transmission stuff will be well down the road and I haven't even looked at the rulebook to see how that would jive. This season I'll be running probably in E/S or D/SS (CACC rules) depending on whether or not I put springs in. I'm comfortable with taking my time on this build-up though because I have more time than I do money. lol

But I'm looking forward to every minute of it.

btw, Marc if you're attending VCMC's closed club event I'm assuming you're a VCMC member. Can a join the club then if I go? Right now I'm only a UBCSCC member.

 

I'm not replacing the moonroof hole with anything...If need be, like for rainy days, I might just get a sheet of thin lexan and fabricate a lightweight removable cover. Since it's for autocross only I don't have to worry about having it covered, if/when I plan to go road racing I would then rivet sheetmetal to cover the hole.

For the transmission, going into 3rd for a few seconds shouldn't hurt your time if you're able to heel and toe. I was running my truck a while back and tried two different approaches - 1. leave it in second 2. Shifting into third on the short but fast sections. Second gear on my Tacoma is good for 55mph max, which was just below the speed on the final 'straight' through the lights. Between the two approaches there was virtually no difference, actually shifting to third seemed a little better. Not sure how this would translate to a FWD, higher horsepower than torque Integra though...probably would be better to leave it in second, with stock gearing. I'd like to have a transmission for autocross where 2nd gear redlines at around 40 mph. That way second would be used in the slow sections but still be able to handle the slolams and third would be able to be used longer and with its good midrange power (third gear seems to be the strongest gear in Acuras).

 

Crack Monkey since Robbin said the car would be race only would DSP be better than EP then? With EP you could put in a "Stock" GSR or Type R motor and transmission is free. I'm sure that could be regionally competitive as well...the key is good weight reduction tactics to allow it to be competitive!

 

My sponsor road races a 2nd gen Teg. His weighs in at 1970lbs, which is about as low as you could possibly get. He dropped in a Comptech built H22A that makes about 255hp, so as you can imagine, it's a wee bit on the quick side. I've seen him win EMRA big bore races with it (beating a Speedvision Cup Corvette among other things).

Matt

 

How, 250 hp is pretty hot for a 2000lb car. Is that at the wheels? Until my car is race only I think I'd like to still be able to use my moonroof but just use a lexan cover of some sort like you said Vracer. Let me know what you figure out.

As for classing and engine/tranny swaps and what not, that will definitely not happen this season and probably not next season either. At first I was planning on building a competitive D/SS car for this season (with light weight wheels, sticky tires, quaife differential, springs on koni yellows, and sway bars) but my finiancial situation has changed so now I'll just be battling to pay entry fees.

-Chris

 

Is your D/SS equivalent to SCCA's DSP?

DSP = D-Street Prepared

Cars are allowed (brief, incomplete list):
wheels are free
tires, any DOT approved (so Kumho V700, Hoosier A3S03 etc are ok)
LSD
springs/coilovers
shocks
swaybars
intake system is free
exhaust system is free
ignition is free
emmissions, AC, cruise delete
and some minor interior gutting (race seats,stereo out, but trim panels stay)

 

Hey Crack Monkey,

CACC SS is more restrictive then SCCA, SP and our CACC, SP is less restrictive then SCCA, SP. We don't have the population base to support ST classes so we have attempted to incorporate them in to our SS and SP. Most autocross events in Vancouver, BC bring out 115+ cars. You can check out the rules here!
http://www.caccautosport.org/RaceRegs.html


[Modified by DB1-R81, 11:44 AM 3/13/2002]

 

The CACC rules work mostly by a points system. D/SS is allowed 6 points.

Tires and wheels are free
shocks are free
LSD is 1 pt
sway bars 1 pt each
springs 3 pts

There's also a big complex bit for weight reduction. Our D/SP allows 15 pts so there are a lot more opportunities for drivetrain and weight reduction mods.

 

Speedracer33, would you possibly give a list of what was done to get that weight on a G2 with a H22 motor and full cage? Wasn't anything drastic like cutting the roof off was it..