I want to become a better driver but I have no money really. What can I do to become a better driver. I don;t want to pratice on normal streets because that seems dangerous to me. Also I want something more than just a big parking lot becuase I am afraid of hitting light poles. Are they an sort of cheeper tracks set up in parking lots or something similar where people can go just to practice?

 

I'd say going to autocrosses would be the cheapest, safest way to get better. It'll teach you the limits of your car as well as race lines.

 

Autox - its cheap

Don't spend a penny on your car. Go to as many events as you can. Search http://www.myautoevents.com or search for the region closest to you. Most regions are closing down for the year, so you might not get too many events in this year.

 

Definately autocrossing. It will cost you about $20 for the whole day (3 to 6 "runs" depending on what region your in). Check http://www.scca.com

 

defiantely autocross. and once youve been running witht he same club(s) for a while, you can help out and maybe run for free. but the main key to getting better is seat time. there are also a few good books out there that will send you on your way to driving improvement.

 

if I have this straight...

in autox you all go for an intial run and this is your time that determines your class for the day? Then you work the rest of the day trying to achieve the best time in your respective class. Is this correct? What keeps someone with skill from purpoosely driving like garbage to get into a really low class and then getting an inccredbile time in that class?

Also the only things I plan on doing to my car are rims and tires ( I'm on steelies right now) and coilovers and an alignment. I don't plan on doing an engine mods one because they are expensive and to my skills are so low that there is no use to me increasing my power. I plan on saving the rest of my moeny in case I break stuff.

 

The type of car and the modifications done to it determine your class.
For example (a tube chassis race car with 30 sqft of wings will not compete against a stock Yugo)

You are competing against other people in your class of similar cars.

You generally get 3 runs on the track.
Your fastest run will be ranked against others fastest runs in your class to determine the winner.

If you hit a cone they add a few seconds to that laps time.

Lap 1 45.234 + 1 cones = 47.234
Lap 2 42.247 + 0 cones = 42.247
Lap 3 41.084 + 3 cones = 47.084



Modified by Crazydave at 5:56 PM 11/1/2005

 

In autocross your class is determined by what kind of car you have (based on its stock "sportiness") and what kind of modifications you might have done to it.

However, in autocross you can learn about everything you need to know to go fast in a completely stock vehicle. Just go, have fun, and you will start learning without even knowing it.

Also, autocross is safer than driving to work... on the autocross course you are practically alone and everyone is looking out for your safety... on the streets, well, its completely opposite.

BTW, welcome! and the most dangerous part about autocross: addiction!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbmprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if I have this straight...

in autox you all go for an intial run and this is your time that determines your class for the day? Then you work the rest of the day trying to achieve the best time in your respective class. Is this correct? What keeps someone with skill from purpoosely driving like garbage to get into a really low class and then getting an inccredbile time in that class?

Also the only things I plan on doing to my car are rims and tires ( I'm on steelies right now) and coilovers and an alignment. I don't plan on doing an engine mods one because they are expensive and to my skills are so low that there is no use to me increasing my power. I plan on saving the rest of my moeny in case I break stuff. </TD></TR></TABLE>

only a few clubs do this

 

One useful thing you can practice on the street is heel-and-toe shifting. It's how most of us learned to do it and it will be useful once you start driving in autocross or in track events.

 

autoX is cheap but you get very little time on the driving. Most courses are less then 1 minute and you get what 5 runs max?

Some times you can find really good mid-week track deal, were you get 7-10 30 minute session for around 250 bucks. So thats over 3.5 hours on the track in one day. It would take you around 42 or more autoX's with 1 minute course and 5 runs to get that amount of time driving. And at a typical entry fee of 20 bucks it will cost you 840 dollars as opposed to the mid-week track days.

Say you just do a nasa weekend though 270 bucks for 8 20 minute session, thats still over 2.5 hours of track time in two days.

It would still take you 32 autoX with 1 minute courses with 5 runs to equal that and say entry fees are only 10 it will still cost you more.

So what my point? yes track days do cost alot of money but IMO are a much better deal then autoX

 

Welcome.

As many have said, autocrossing is the cheapest way to get your speed addiction. It also makes you a much better driver.

See, this is a much better question than the "mountain passing" thread.

Matt&lt;-- started autocrossing in '96. It's been a long, dark drive down the road of financial ruin ever since....

 

id like to say a car control clinic would b a good choice too

 

Yes, but those are generally pricey.

If your local club has a school (usually at the beginning of the year) that's a good buy. The local hotshoe may not be nationally competetive, but he can darn sure show you a thing or three...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbmprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want to become a better driver but I have no money really. What can I do to become a better driver. I don;t want to pratice on normal streets because that seems dangerous to me. Also I want something more than just a big parking lot becuase I am afraid of hitting light poles. Are they an sort of cheeper tracks set up in parking lots or something similar where people can go just to practice?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Definitely check out autocross competitions. What part of the world are you in? Perhaps we can help you find a local event or club, or at least point you to some lists of 'em online.

Some clubs do less cars and more runs per day, and some clubs do schools twice a year. Depending upon where you live, you'll probably find plenty of options and they're usually ALL good choices. Don't worry about the car at first, just go out and drive and learn and have fun!

Jon

 

The only problem with auto-x is you're sitting on your *** pretty much the whole day. Not too much behind the wheel time compared to other things you could do. A long time ago I used to go to a huge dry lake bed (no restrictions) and just go crazy to see what the car does when it's sliding. Doesn't really teach you anything that will make you any faster, but at least you get the feel what the extremes of understeer and oversteer are like.

You could also go to kart tracks, learn a thing or two about being smooth and lines. Then you can also try some good racing simulators like live for speed, that way you have some intellectual idea of how you're supposed to go around a track (like braking zones, etc.)

Lastly, you can also pick up good reading material like the Caroll Smith to Win series. And just go hit the track.

 

Wow I didn't think I would get so many responses. This is great. I live in illinois. Are there any good online reading that I can do now, such as a tutorial on that heel-toe shifting mentioned above? That is a really good point about the 270 for a full day and how much track time you will get. I would like to become better though before than as right now I probaly cant use that much time as effectively as I could had I have more experience, so I'm thinking maybe a few autoxs to start out with. Ill proably pick up some reading material on the subject this weekend or the next. Maybe I can find the books mentioned so far in my library.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbmprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow I didn't think I would get so many responses. This is great. I live in illinois. Are there any good online reading that I can do now, such as a tutorial on that heel-toe shifting mentioned above? That is a really good point about the 270 for a full day and how much track time you will get. I would like to become better though before than as right now I probaly cant use that much time as effectively as I could had I have more experience, so I'm thinking maybe a few autoxs to start out with. Ill proably pick up some reading material on the subject this weekend or the next. Maybe I can find the books mentioned so far in my library.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about reading or track events or possible information overload quite yet (no offense intended.) Start with one book that addresses your immediate approach, namely this one, which I've seen on the shelf at local bookstores in the past, or get it online at this link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...lance

Then move on to something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...lance


It sounds like your heart is in the right place so my best advice is find your nearest local autocross and at least go out and see what it's all about. Maybe sign up your first time, or maybe just go check it out the first time and sign up for the next one. People are usually quite friendly and the organizers can probably find you a ride if you ask early enough. Gotta crawl before you can walk, right?

Illinois... not a part of the country I'm familiar with... but a good place to start finding your nearest club is here:

http://www.scca.com/Inside/Ind...t&%7E=

And of course here, from the website of the magazine that is our monthly bible:

http://www.grassrootsmotorspor...links/


There is also a lot of good info here:

http://www.autocross.com/


And a great starter FAQ here:

http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/faq/


And the legendary Solo2 Novice Handbook here:

http://www.tirerack.com/featur...k.htm


Hope it helps. Good luck and have fun!

Jon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superpilun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only problem with auto-x is you're sitting on your *** pretty much the whole day.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depends upon the region and the event, within reason. Some groups run their show like two separate events in a day (i.e. "morning sessions" and "afternoon sessions") where you can be there only for like 4 hours total. Run then work then leave... it's a great idea for autocrossers with other Sunday commitments.

Some other groups do less cars and more runs on shorter schedules, to maximize seat time by design. For example, NASA Mid-Atlantic events at VMP (see sig) are for ~60 cars each, offering 8-10 runs per driver per day, and the "hot course hours" are noon to 5. That means participants can theoretically show up at 10am for registration/tech, walk the course at 11, do the drivers meeting at 11:30, compete in the first heat from 12-1:30ish, work the second heat from 1:30-3ish, then pack up and go home. 5 hours on site is not necessarily an entire day wasted by any means... and in the process the participants get twice as many laps as other clubs might offer.

These are just examples of other ways it's done... at some events in some regions, you don't always have to be there from 8am to 6pm for only 3-4 runs. IMHO more seat time and/or less required time on-site always makes the events that much more enjoyable for participants

Time for bed,

Jon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superpilun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only problem with auto-x is you're sitting on your *** pretty much the whole day.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">autoX is cheap but you get very little time on the driving. Most courses are less then 1 minute and you get what 5 runs max?

Yes track days do cost alot of money but IMO are a much better deal then autoX</TD></TR></TABLE>

There are a few benifits to autocrosses "lacking" seat time of course...

On a simple level you have time to socalize.. which for many people is a lot of the fun of the events anyway..

Stepping up to some more going faster stuff, you get a chance to watch a LOT of other runs, and see what works and doesn't work, compare fast guys with slow guys, etc..

Getting even more into what makes autocrossers fast is.. in order to autocross well you have to learn fast, the lack of runs forces you to think your way through how to drive something without hours of practice.. call it a reflash for your brain, which is the most important go-fast part in your car anyway.

Combine that with the cost to enter, and its substantially less than track days, where you put a lot more abuse on the car.

as was said up there in a few posts, spend your $ on events, dont worry about anything else, the more you watch, and do and ask questions the better you will get. A student of mine did his first autocross in Feb of this year, and put it in his head to do as many events as possible.. he has done probably 35 autocrosses this year, and when it came time for him to do a track day he was more aware, more incontrol, and MUCH faster than most of the veteran track day guys, and all of the other DE students.

Jon K
http://www.seat-time.com
http://www.racerjon.com

 

im not sure where you are in illinois or what there are for clubs, but there is the MSCC (Madison Sports Car Club) and i know we have several illinois members. http://www.madisonsportscarclub.com/

also in attempt to get more driving time at most events (depending on how we run on time) there are "fun runs." basically they are a dollar per run and they dont count for anything but you get to see your time and you can usually get in a bunch more runs.

 

Autocrossing is a great place to start, especially if you're on a tight budget. As some have mentioned the cost vs. seat time is better with a track but the track is not the place to learn how to control an out-of-control car. You can spin, miss a brake zone, drive the wrong line, etc... at an autocross and have no worry of hitting anything which is not the case at the track.

Another big complaint about autocrossing is that it takes all day for around 3 minutes of driving. This is both true and not at the same time. You are only driving for 3 minutes at least but you should be spending all the rest of the time analyzing the course, discussing the line with other drivers, watching other drivers drive, etc... think of your 3 (or more) runs as a test for the day to see how well you have studied.

 

go-karts are another great way to safely learn to drive fast. check and see if there is an indoor go-kart track (or outdoor if you live in an area that has nice weather year round) and check it out.

nate

 

if you're closer to St. Louis, I know there is a good sized Autocrossing group here that regularly has events (although they may be on the winter hiatus now).. check out http://www.solo2.org to find some of them or http://www.scca.org and find your local region on there!

 

Didn't see where you said you were from (didn't read the whole thread) but I do have some suggestions that might work depending on your location.

If there is a SCCA chapter that runs Solo, I would contact their Solo chair and see if they have a "set up" crew for the events. Typically if you help set up and run the event you get your entry fee waived.

Also if there is a Time Trial program and you help the SCCA region with that there is a possibility they may give you some track time.

The same also holds true for various clubs or groups that rent tracks. A lot of them give corner workers some "free" track time in exchange for you standing on a corner all day doing flagging.

Also if there is wheel to wheel racing at a track near you I would go check it out and see if there is a tire vendor providing trackside service. If so sometimes (depending on your needed tire size) you can get "throwaway" R compound tires for free or next to nothing. I run on them all the time. Some folks with a nice racing budget throw their tires away long before they are through simply because they want their race tires at their peak. Me, if I ran on freshly shaved rubber I would not know what to do with myself (other than hopefully be faster).

Barry H.