I made A couple of these the other day for A 92-95 civic but they will fit 94-01 integra also.
There pretty much the same old design except I added A brace to the main bar to eliminate some flexing of the tube under hard acceleration.

sorry for the big *** pic

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dragline &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I added A brace to the main bar to eliminate some flexing of the tube under hard acceleration.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

how much can these crossmembers flex? i have wondered about this myself. has anyone done any kinds of tests with this "brace"

 

How much do you want for a set of these?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

how much can these crossmembers flex? i have wondered about this myself. has anyone done any kinds of tests with this "brace"</TD></TR></TABLE>

On A eg chassis it can only flex as much as the rear lca bushings allow, I decided to use A brace after watching A similar straight bar design on A ef chassis made by A well know company flex in during A launch, so I figured by added a brace to a eg chassis design would help eliminate the tube flexing and make a more rigid design, pretty much the same way they add A brace to A rear to eliminate flexing. I have not done any real testing yet in extreme conditions but I can say that if under load when the lca's pull at the tab locations on that bar, that the bar can only do one thing and that is flex in the middle.

I'm just basically looking for people opinion on this, I don't claim to be a engineer anything I just have a good understanding of how things work.

 

sounds reasonable to me.

 

Nice! Let me know if you start selling these.

 

It looks good.

If the bars are pulling/pushing what you added will help minimize flexing in that direction.

 

Looks good!

I bought a set that looks identical to what U made (without the xtra brace welded on) on Egay about a year ago.

Been working great, over 350whp daily driven!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks good!

I bought a set that looks identical to what U made (without the xtra brace welded on) on Egay about a year ago.

Been working great, over 350whp daily driven!!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Egay

 

I'm a noob on this one. But how this things work? I can't figure it out how this traction bars with heim joints work. Can someone explain me please.


Modified by CRX-ZC at 1:42 PM 11/1/2005

 

i made mine out of square tube to prevent bending. i'm pretty sure square would be stronger than round. it makes a big difference in reducing wheel hop.








i also added a different cross brace to get rid of the factory one to make room for my intercooler.

 

how did you determine where to make the joints on the front cross member....and where'd you pick up the radius rods & heim joints....im contemplating fab'n up my own bars this winter for a dc2...just lookin for some insight

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how did you determine where to make the joints on the front cross member....and where'd you pick up the radius rods & heim joints....im contemplating fab'n up my own bars this winter for a dc2...just lookin for some insight</TD></TR></TABLE>

just make sure the pivot point on the traction bar for the tie rod lines up with the pivot point on your lower control arm where it bolts to the frame of the car. that way they both pivot on the same axis plane. i got the heim joints (or rod ends) from a local bearing supply place. they are 20mm, which is kinda overkill, but i had them left over from another project for a rear camber kit i made. you can probably get them on ebay for pretty cheap, or check out http://www.mcmaster-carr.com they will have them, just do a search for "rod end".

 

How can you reduce wheel hop with heim joints on both sides? So lower arms are connected to front cross member with heim joints. Wont wheels still hop - arms will move up and down? Or i don't quite understand wheel hop problem?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX-ZC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How can you reduce wheel hop with heim joints on both sides? So lower arms are connected to front cross member with heim joints. Wont wheels still hop - arms will move up and down? Or i don't quite understand wheel hop problem?</TD></TR></TABLE>

wheel hop is a result of having rubber bushings on your tie rods where they connect to the stock cross member (on my crx anyway) and rubber bushings in the lca's. by getting rid of the rubber in the crossmember and replacing them with a hard joint like the heim joints, there is no give and less vibration back and forth motion on your spindle when your tires are trying to get traction. on my particular setup for the tie rods, i used the stock units and just created a small threaded piece to connect them to the heim joints so i don't have a second pair connected to the lca's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weirRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i made mine out of square tube to prevent bending. i'm pretty sure square would be stronger than round. it makes a big difference in reducing wheel hop.








i also added a different cross brace to get rid of the factory one to make room for my intercooler.










</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ya square tubing is stronger (looks like 1") but I would of went with A larger diameter especially since it is on A ef chassis and the lca's location is full dependent on the radius rod and crossmember's design and I would of atleast made a brace from the rod end tabs to the factory crossmember bolt location for some extra support that would really help . The way it is now it is going to flex a good bit. I also have one of those heim joints you are using and you may want to look into get something a bit stronger because the load rating on those is pretty low. Your fab work looks really good

 

Sorry to argue, and no offense to the square tubing crossmember because it looks great, but square is NOT stronger than round tubing. A circle is the strongest isometric shape, which is why all "safety equipment", like cages are made of round tubing. The triangle is the second strongest isometric shape, which is why you see gussets, and braces(like and x-brace in the back of a cage), all using a triangle shape. Again, dont want to argue, just setting the facts straight.
Dragline, the ones you built look great! Mild steel or 4130? Where did you buy the end mounting brackets, or did you have them cut? Just a word of advice...dont HAVE to do it, but if it were me, I sure would....don't use any rod ends unless they are QA1 or Aurora. Aurora has the BEST rod ends in the world, and really arent much more. I buy 1/2" ones for like $6.25 each. I have seen a few rod end failures, and believe me, they are not pretty. Just something to think about if you start marketing them...
Again, LOOKS GREAT!
Kyle

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blueoval557 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry to argue, and no offense to the square tubing crossmember because it looks great, but square is NOT stronger than round tubing. A circle is the strongest isometric shape, which is why all "safety equipment", like cages are made of round tubing. The triangle is the second strongest isometric shape, which is why you see gussets, and braces(like and x-brace in the back of a cage), all using a triangle shape. Again, dont want to argue, just setting the facts straight.
Dragline, the ones you built look great! Mild steel or 4130? Where did you buy the end mounting brackets, or did you have them cut? Just a word of advice...dont HAVE to do it, but if it were me, I sure would....don't use any rod ends unless they are QA1 or Aurora. Aurora has the BEST rod ends in the world, and really arent much more. I buy 1/2" ones for like $6.25 each. I have seen a few rod end failures, and believe me, they are not pretty. Just something to think about if you start marketing them...
Again, LOOKS GREAT!
Kyle</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is just mild steel and the brackets where bought not made. All I use are QA1 rod ends, I get chromoly ones with A higher radial load rating, better safe then sorry the mild steel ones usually don't last to long

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blueoval557 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry to argue, and no offense to the square tubing crossmember because it looks great, but square is NOT stronger than round tubing. A circle is the strongest isometric shape, which is why all "safety equipment", like cages are made of round tubing. The triangle is the second strongest isometric shape, which is why you see gussets, and braces(like and x-brace in the back of a cage), all using a triangle shape. Again, dont want to argue, just setting the facts straight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with your statement about geometric shapes... however in THIS application, square will be far stronger than round. round pipe is used for roll cages because it can withstand forces from all directions, but a round pipe will bend much easier than a square pipe that is forced against it in only the flat direction. round will be stronger all around as a general shape, but the force that is applied in the direction against the side of the square will be stronger.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weirRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i agree with your statement about geometric shapes... however in THIS application, square will be far stronger than round. round pipe is used for roll cages because it can withstand forces from all directions, but a round pipe will bend much easier than a square pipe that is forced against it in only the flat direction. round will be stronger all around as a general shape, but the force that is applied in the direction against the side of the square will be stronger.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think the square will work fine if it was large diameter, your going to have A lot of flexing and more wheel hop then stock. I've seen 1.5" round tubing flex on A ef chassis as just the straight tube, you should definitely add the additional braces atleast, I think the way it is now it may even brake.

 

I am with weir on the square tubing. It is what my T-Bars are made out of that I sell. I have made every bar out of square. (Larger size though) Plenty of Research and comtiplation went into the square vs round and all roads went to square. I did calculations at school, (Mech Eng.) and asked profs also. For the application square is a better choice.

My bars include the extra brace to the factory location. Though it may not be necessary (I have seen countless setup without it with great results) I like the added peice of mind in the product I offer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dragline &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It is just mild steel and the brackets where bought not made. All I use are QA1 rod ends, I get chromoly ones with A higher radial load rating, better safe then sorry the mild steel ones usually don't last to long </TD></TR></TABLE>

Where did you get the brackets from?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bumblezc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am with weir on the square tubing. It is what my T-Bars are made out of that I sell. I have made every bar out of square. (Larger size though) Plenty of Research and comtiplation went into the square vs round and all roads went to square. I did calculations at school, (Mech Eng.) and asked profs also. For the application square is a better choice.

My bars include the extra brace to the factory location. Though it may not be necessary (I have seen countless setup without it with great results) I like the added peice of mind in the product I offer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Any pics of your bars?

 

where do you guys get your radius rods from....or do you take a solid rod & add threaded inlets for the rod ends?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by weirRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i agree with your statement about geometric shapes... however in THIS application, square will be far stronger than round. round pipe is used for roll cages because it can withstand forces from all directions, but a round pipe will bend much easier than a square pipe that is forced against it in only the flat direction. round will be stronger all around as a general shape, but the force that is applied in the direction against the side of the square will be stronger.</TD></TR></TABLE>While Kyle is wrong about geometry etc, you're wrong about your bar being stronger.

1.5" tubing in your standard .095" wall thickness has a Polar Moment of Inertia of .10394 in^4, while even if your 1" square bar was solid, it would have a PMI of only .08333.

That means that your bar will bend 20% more than his when subjected to the same load.

If you made it out of 1.5" 16 gauge (.065") square tube, it would have a PMI of .26547, or be 2.5 times as stiff as the 1.5" round tube, and it would also be lighter than the round tube.