Currently as of right now I have my 4pt harness bolted to the floor in the stock hole locations on both sides.

Ive been told its not safe because if the 8-10* angle

So I want to keep my rear interior and Im not a master fabricator, just learned to weld on a glasless mig. just want a cross bar to mount my harness on safely.

Ive also been thinking of making a cross aswell, I would mount the harness bar high (where the seatbelt bolts uptop beside your head and across to the other side) and make the cross mount down to just infront of the shock towers.

I really dont know to much about rules or regulations, wont be hard racing, just want some safety and ridgitity.

Hope someone can lend some insight

 

A harness is not safe in that car without a cage. You don't want to be stuck upright if a crx rolls over without roll over protection...it's not pretty, and it hurts

So if you are indeed asking about the bar because the way you have it mounted now is not safe...the bar isn't a safe idea either. If you said you are just using it for auto-x then thats cool but out on the street or racetrack it's a bad idea.

Oh ya and theres a pretty good chance a 4 point will hurt your stomatch pretty good when you crash it's really should be 5 or 6 point to keep the lap belt from cutting you up. Lap belts hurt...when they're not in the right place


Modified by 89civicdx at 5:14 AM 10/28/2005

 

I think a triangulated setup might be alright

Any more opinions, this car is just for street, probably be doing autox, just some fun on the road, definetely wont be flipping the car unless I am hit

 

the harness bar is not a bad idea, or unsafe.

mounting the shoulders to the floor is, because in an accident when you go forward, the belts will compress your spine and could rupture discs or worse.

if you make a good harness bar and attatch it somewhere strong, then it will be a good place for your shoulder belts, and not put pressure on the spine in case of an accident.

lap belts may be "painful" but they are what actually holds you into the car when you are either upside down or lunging forward.

i personally dont need a full cage or a rollbar, and ill only be doing some occasional drag racing, so if it fits the rules, m going to be making one too, for my harness.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A harness is not safe in that car without a cage. You don't want to be stuck upright if a crx rolls over without roll over protection...it's not pretty, and it hurts</TD></TR></TABLE>
You wont be able to duck or whatever you're saying, it'll hurt alot less when you're strapped to the car properly.

definately mount the belts at a maximum downward angle of 45degrees, otherwise you'll get compression fractures in your back when you crash.


Thats what a compression fracture looks like, painfull? You betcha!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You wont be able to duck or whatever you're saying</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't say duck , you body needs to be able to move when the roof comes down on you. You must have a strong neck if you think you are going to hold up the weight of the car on your head.

No roll bar and his neck might snap.

No 5th or 6th point and the lap belt will pull through his stomatch. I almost broke my back from a lap belt riding up and pulling through my stomatch.

You need the crotch belt to keep the lap belt down on your lap not on your abdomen.

You guys are only thinking of the obvious issue that has been discussed to death and that is seatbelt angle. There other isuues with being strapped in upright without the roll over protection and a lap belt that isn't being held down.

Don't make me post pics


Modified by 89civicdx at 11:44 AM 10/28/2005

 

you know the only reason for a 5th point is so you dont slide out from under the bottom right?

it isnt there to retrain the lap belt. if you have the lap mounted properly and really tight like its supposed to be that wouldnt happened.

how would his neck snap, please explain?

on a roll bar, there is a harness bar that is in the exact same place where he wants to put his harness bar. behind the headrests.

nothin else (restraint wise) differs.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89civicdx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You guys are only thinking of the obvious issue that has been discussed to death and that is seatbelt angle. There other isuues with being strapped in upright without the roll over protectionhe doesnt need rollover protection, just a proper way to mount his shoulder harness, hence the harness bar. and a lap belt that isn't being held down.lap belt is held down to the floor behind the seat regardless of your shoulder harness mounting.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
how would his neck snap, please explain?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

With out roll over protection, the roof caves inwards into the passanger head area. Two area's can't occupy the same space at once.

With a 3 point stock belt you can slowch out of the way of the incoming roof. The incoming roof does not try and occupy your head space, all is peachy.

With a harness, you are unable to slouch. Held up by your "safety device" , the roof caves inwards towards your head. You can't move, the roof hits your head, and then your in very deep ****.

With a roll bar, it prevents the caving roof, and you are good.

No one plans to roll their car, but it happens, even in AutoX's and on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you know the only reason for a 5th point is so you dont slide out from under the bottom right?

it isnt there to retrain the lap belt. if you have the lap mounted properly and really tight like its supposed to be that wouldnt happened.

how would his neck snap, please explain?

on a roll bar, there is a harness bar that is in the exact same place where he wants to put his harness bar. behind the headrests.

nothin else (restraint wise) differs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only time you will see someone slide under is in a formula car...that belt will ride up on you in your passenger car.



Thats my head...if you were wondering.

 

Oh yeah I'm not trying to argue with anyone...you can think what you want. Just trying to help you be safe.

 

Did that happen at gingerman?

If so I was two cars behind you when you went off, and saw the whole thing.

Scared the living **** out of me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did that happen at gingerman?

If so I was two cars behind you when you went off, and saw the whole thing.

Scared the living **** out of me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No that happened at shannonville motorsports park in Belleville Ontario Canada.

Are you saying that happened to someone else ...hope their ok

Maybe I'll visit gingerman next year...I haven't been to the track since, it's been a year since the roll over. I'm ready to come back...just need that thing called a car...and a cage of course

 

Shannonville is an awesome track, seen a white eg total with a b swap last year

Im definetely gonna make the bar go across form the upper seatblet mounting point and mount my shoulder to there and the lower part of the harness to the stock location, sound right?

Then figure out a triangulated setup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't say duck , you body needs to be able to move when the roof comes down on you. You must have a strong neck if you think you are going to hold up the weight of the car on your head</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd like to see you try to move and "slouch" down, when the car goes over the roof, I'd rather be strapped in properly so I dont fly out from the belts and fly out of the car when it goes flying off the road and over the roof.

 

he doesnt want/need rollover protection is the point that he and i were making.

neither do i.

and like i stated already again, if youre wearing the lap tight enough and properly it doesnt come up.

and it's not only in formula type racing that people go out the bottom.

 

lol good luck

 

yep.

not all cars need rollover protection. mine doesnt, so im not getting it.
enough said.

and unfortunately a rollbar wouldntve even helped out your crx. only an actual cage that went through the dash by the a-pillar

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flashmn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'd like to see you try to move and "slouch" down, when the car goes over the roof, I'd rather be strapped in properly so I dont fly out from the belts and fly out of the car when it goes flying off the road and over the roof.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You dont have to try to move. The roof does a good enough job for you.

For all this effort into trying to triangulate this and that, just buy an autopower or kirk racing rollbar and put it in.

This car crashed at summit point - both driver and instructor walked away. Think about what would have happened if they were strapped upright and could not move......





No one can make you do anything. But its your choice and your skull.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dfoxengr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">only an actual cage that went through the dash by the a-pillar</TD></TR></TABLE>

A collapsing apillar wont kill you like a crushed roof.

 

i was saying thats the only thing that wouldve helped him. a rollbar isnt even near that impact zone.

 

So yeah........

About how to actually make this bar I want

I was thinking of just getting 2 fairly long bolts, bolting them into the upperseatbelt mount on the C pillar so they stuck out a few inches into the interior, then I would cut a piece of round bar to fit inbetween the two bolts perfect and weld it in

[/b]options - make the bar a loose fit so I have to build the welds to the bar to make it a complete across piece, or do I cut the bar extremely snug so I have to ram it into place between the bolts, therefore maybe putting a little stress on the c pillars for rigitity?[/b]

Then for the X setup to the rear shock towers I would weld tabs onto the above harness bar facing the shocks towers and sloped down. Havent thought of how yet but I would build the strut towers up a little so I dot have to hack my crx rear interior and can just take out the stock little hole, bolt in a spare rear strut bar from tower to tower. This would give me 2 parallel bars, I would then weld to tabe sloping upwards towards the harness bar on this strut bar.

Now I need an opinion on this, I can either make an X to connect both harness bar and custom strut bar or just have one bar across, making a Z or inverted Z, making the X might be a bit tricky for me to cross the 2 pieces of bar.

Would I notice a difference at all with the X compared to the Z? The X would also look a great deal better I think

Yes I am new to any of this type of fab, I litterally just bought a welder and a shop saw to have fun, this is the kind of stuff I wanna try

Hope someone has some positive insight to help me

 

search for the one the guy with the del sol made.

 

I looked all morning at work, couldnt find a single non cage X or Z homemade DIY with pics

 

keep looking once the search returns.

 

WOT, If I understand what you are saying, you want to put one bar across the car from the drivers side seatbelt mount to the passengers side seatbelt mount, then brace it to the rear strut bar with a diagonal. If this is true then a rear end accident has the potential to punch the cross brace through someone's skull. Even on the street. Especially if the welds are made by an inexperienced welder. If you are absolutley insistent on doing this, you should build a roll bar with mounting plates where the feet meet the chassis, and two braces, one going back on each side to your strut towers. Then add your harness bar. go look at the "post up your cage" thread.

The only four point harnesses that are DOT approved legal have slightly different material in the two top belts so that as you are thrown forward into your harness, your body twists ever so slightly. This prevents you from being pressed against the top and lap belts, and having nowhere to go but under. Car seatbelts do stretch a little bit under crash forces, and this is intentional and measured stretch.

Imagine being strapped into a seat with your chest facing down, the only place to go, although it doesn't always happen, is under. That's why the 5th point on a five point harness is the 'anti submarine' link. I see it happen to kids and adults alike who come into the hospital with internal bleeding, gotta make sure that lap belt is in exactly the right place.

For those of you mentioning 'ducking' or moving out of the way in an accident, don't forget that when you crash your seat belt tensioners will fire, holding you to the seat, like the gentlmen who you saw with his helmet haning out the window, bending across the chest belt is pretty much all you would be able to do, other than slide under if your lap belt was in the wrong place.

If you're going to use a four point harness in a street car, don't be a tool, use a safe and legal one and mount it properly so that those who use the harnesses don't get a bad rep.

Peace out, and good luck on your cage/harness install WOT.