Was the GSR rear trunk spoiler created to reduce drag (and possibly increase straight line stability) for freeway driving or to reduce lift at high speeds? I read that the ITR wing reduces lift. I did a search but didn't find any specific info on the GSR except some blurb from a 1997 Motor Trend article that mentioned GSR body work is for straight line stability.

I am considering whether there would be any benefit to removing it from my GSR since it's mainly a track car. I won't be putting a monster wing on the car for now since I still occasionally drive it on the streets in case my daily driver is out of service. I just want to know if removing it would help me get around a high speed sweeper with less lift?

 

Trust me that wing (GSR) does nothing functional whatsoever except possibly improve the looks of the car. Removing mine off my HC car would do absolutely nothing to hinder my lap times or the handling.

It's possible the ITR one actually does something but I also highly doubt it having seen several of them and deducing that they weren't designed with downforce as a primary factor.

Regards,

Jon

 

Not sure about the standard Integra spoiler, but the Type-R wing does make a difference.

 

I would have to agree with FLATOUTRACING.. I took my stock spoiler off (for better rear view) and i cant say i noticed anything different..

 

Thanks for the replies. I guess I'll just leave it as is.

 

My unscientific track test: running VIR's 115 mph uphill esses with and without the ITR wing, showed me that it works. Tail wagged less and felt nice and predictable with it. Felt more nervous w/o it. Not a huge difference, but noticeable. Speed at the end of the back straight was the same with or without it, so it must create very little drag.

It is more accurate to say that it 'reduces lift', not 'adds downforce'.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It is more accurate to say that it 'reduces lift', not 'adds downforce'.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's just semantics. It reduces lift, since net lift still acts on the car with the wing. Yet, the delta (or change of) lift will be negative thus where one could say that some downforce was added.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Weston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not sure about the standard Integra spoiler, but the Type-R wing does make a difference.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep yep.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Mac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's just semantics. It reduces lift, since net lift still acts on the car with the wing. Yet, the delta (or change of) lift will be negative thus where one could say that some downforce was added.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Rat = not that smart...but smart enough not to argue with an aerodynamicist !

 

well I know for a fact that the GSR wing does nothing for my car...in EP we can not run any type of wing, stock or not. Not even if it came with the car as OE. The rules state "no rear spoiler". This includes the Type R that is classed in EP also. I've only seen one Type R in EP so far this year and that was early in the season at Summit. He was very fast with no wing. Although at VIR he totaled the car........but the rules state "no wings in Production" stock or otherwise. I thought this might be an issue but my car has gotten down to a low 1:25 at Summit, with an IT prepped motor, approx 2400lbs w/ driver, RoadRace Gear front spoiler (which I wouldn't run without), and no other significant changes from IT other than Hoosier roadrace slicks (which make a significant difference in the braking zone and through the corners). There is another second in my car just the way it is prepped now, (its the driver that's slowing it down)......but with all this said as the speeds get greater, a wing, setup properly (minimal drag), would defintely help you approach and handle even faster speeds. But early on it is functionless.


Modified by Maxx44 at 9:39 PM 10/27/2005

 

I think I read somewhere (here?) years ago that the Type-R wing was designed to reduce lift, not necesarily create downforce, but that is still a good thing. I also think that it aids in the directional stability of the rear of the car at high speeds. It makes it feel more settled like Track Rat said.

I also agree that the GSR spoiler is probably just for looks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> To achieve maximum aerodynamic efficiency, the Type R also includes a new chin spoiler and a new wing-type rear spoiler, and the vehicle is 15 mm lower in overall height than the Integra GS-R. These contribute to a 30 percent reduction in the coefficient of lift over the Integra GS-R, and a 1 percent improvement in its drag coefficient.</TD></TR></TABLE>

from ITRSPORT.com

 

Thanks for all the input. For now the spoiler is staying on just because of the 3rd brake light :-)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Maxx44 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...in EP we can not run any type of wing, stock or not. Not even if it came with the car as OE. The rules state "no rear spoiler". This includes the Type R that is classed in EP also.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Didn't know that. Lame ...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Didn't know that. Lame ... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed.

 

ricers

 

Honestly, Zsolt and Jason, it made no difference at all. I didn't even notice it was gone.

Remember..a wing is extra weight and it's in the air flow, it can only be slowing you down....lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Maxx44 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly, Zsolt and Jason, it made no difference at all. I didn't even notice it was gone.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you misunderstood what I was calling lame, Phil. I was calling the rule lame.

Just for clarification, are you saying that the OEM GSR or Type R wing made no difference? I can definitely understand the GSR not giving any advantage.

The Type R wing is a lifesaver on the car, IMO. Much more stability is felt in the high-speed sweepers and under heavy braking. Just my opinion, though

 

I know how you were using the term lame , my dear friend..no worries..


Doing the carousel at Watkins Glen without a wing, but ......with big fat Hoosier 23x9.50x15 slicks made me not miss a wing at all.....and being that all Production cars can run slicks (but not all do), I think a Type R with slicks wouldn't miss a wing either. I love my slicks.......yes i do....

 

Kinda off-topic to the central discussion, but isn't underbody spoilers/air splitters/diffusers about 10x more effective than a rear deck wing?

The Corvette C6 has considerable underbody aerodynamics going on, I think I read thats why it doesnt come with a rear deck spolier.

I dont know how hard it would be to develop a complete underbody spoiler system for our hondas, and doubt that it'd be even in class/spec, but i'm sure itd be very functional. I know many HC/IT/HPDE cars use a front splitter/air dam, but I haven't seen one if any hondas running a rear diffuser or splitter.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisw85 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kinda off-topic to the central discussion, but isn't underbody spoilers/air splitters/diffusers about 10x more effective than a rear deck wing?

The Corvette C6 has considerable underbody aerodynamics going on, I think I read thats why it doesnt come with a rear deck spolier.

I dont know how hard it would be to develop a complete underbody spoiler system for our hondas, and doubt that it'd be even in class/spec, but i'm sure itd be very functional. I know many HC/IT/HPDE cars use a front splitter/air dam, but I haven't seen one if any hondas running a rear diffuser or splitter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can generate a huge amount of downforce from the bottom of the car. You don't use spoilers in the underbody, instead, you try to have very high speed air (low pressure) under the car. To achieve this, you need to have a very smooth belly panel, run a low ride height with stiff suspension, and very low rocker panels to keep this high speed air going as far back as possible. The panel to ground height should be only high enough so that boundary layer effects don't choke off the flow. This height can be of the order of three to four inches depending on the length of the car. The Blausius/Klebanoff turbulent boundary layer thickness should be calculated to determine this height. In back, a diffuser and rear wing are used to drive this flow by exposing the underbody to a low pressure source at the rear of the car. So, it is a combined synergetic effort of smooth underbody, diffuser, and rear wing.

In the front of the car, a splitter can be used to generate downforce and to help balance the downforce generated by the aforementioned underbody. Fences and other diffuser sections can be used to further improve downforce and reduce drag.

Spoilers are used on the top surface of the car, preferably at the rear deck. A spoiler works by causing flow separation in the region behind the spoiler. The front surface is at a high pressure whereas the bottom surface is at low pressure. The difference between these two pressures causes a net downforce. And depending on the spoiler size and angle of inclination, a net reduction in drag is possible. However, at high levels of downforce you can expect a large amount of drag. Wings are more efficient than spoilers, but are more complicated to manufacture. In a pinch, a spoiler can really help to balance out an aero induced oversteering car.





Modified by Johnny Mac at 10:16 PM 10/30/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Mac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You can generate a huge amount of downforce from the bottom of the car................

............. In a pinch, a spoiler can really help to balance out an aero induced oversteering car.

Modified by Johnny Mac at 10:16 PM 10/30/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't quite fully comprehend everything you said, but I tell you, it was pure poetry.