Title says it all. Whos done it, how much time approximatly did it take you, and if you pics have lets see some.

doesnt matter what vehicle its on, honda, toyota, VW, ford, mazda, I4, V4, I6, V8, V10, whatever.

 

I made a 4-2-1 merge collector header for a dodge neon out of mild steel. 1 7/8 primaries 2" secondaries with a 3" outlet.

Also made a 4-1 2" primary merge collectorheader for a 2.4L swapped neon out of stainless. 3" v-band outlet.

a pic of the coated mild steel one are on http://www.rternie.com the stainless header I dont have any pics uploaded yet. It looks sick tho.

The first time I did it...took me near a whole day. the 2nd time it took me about 6 hours.

I think that you need to get the fitment PERFECT first. That means having your collector perfectly placed and your head flange bolted to the head. And make some kind of steel frame that keeps the head flange and the collector perfectly aligned. From there look to see where your restrictions are and build the header off the car. If you're good at piecing bends together it will go smoothly. be sure to cut the pieces at the tangent of the bend. good luck. A miata header will be quite easy.

 

sohc header i made. took me awhile, was my first one.

 

wow good freakin gains in power! nice job

 

Here is one that Huy (crx=si on honda tech) a year or so ago. This header is a 4-1 side exit race header. It is a 3 step header. We used a CPPexhaust 4-1 merge collector with 1 7/8" primaries to a 2 3/4 exit. I believe the flare out from the collector went out to 3". The whole thing was mild steel, ceramic coated. We dyno'd it and it made just over 230whp on a stroked b16 motor with an intake manifold. The only power comarison we have is that this same motor with an older Hytech side exit and ITBs made the same power.

Here are a few pics:

 

Hey do you have anymore pictures? Its probably MY eyes but they don't look equal
length.The first one looks about 20 to 23"s shorter than the last one.Do you have a tape measure?

 

hey 20lb is that like the header mike was using on his ls/vtec or was his differetn

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 20lbbooster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is one that Huy (crx=si on honda tech) a year or so ago. This header is a 4-1 side exit race header. It is a 3 step header. We used a CPPexhaust 4-1 merge collector with 1 7/8" primaries to a 2 3/4 exit. I believe the flare out from the collector went out to 3". The whole thing was mild steel, ceramic coated. We dyno'd it and it made just over 230whp on a stroked b16 motor with an intake manifold. The only power comarison we have is that this same motor with an older Hytech side exit and ITBs made the same power.

Here are a few pics:



Nice work!













</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nice work! Very impressive!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Wizard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey do you have anymore pictures? Its probably MY eyes but they don't look equal
length.The first one looks about 20 to 23"s shorter than the last one.Do you have a tape measure?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, your eyes are right. This header was not equal legnth. We weren't trying to make it equal legnth.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skr33t_rac3r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey 20lb is that like the header mike was using on his ls/vtec or was his differetn</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, this is not the one that we made for mike. Mike's header actually exited on the other side and it swept around to the left then out to the right. It had the same kind of collector as this one but his used a 2.5" outlet. Mike's poor header got smashed when Huy wrecked the red hatch that we were testing his header out on....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 20lbbooster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is one that Huy (crx=si on honda tech) a year or so ago. This header is a 4-1 side exit race header. It is a 3 step header. We used a CPPexhaust 4-1 merge collector with 1 7/8" primaries to a 2 3/4 exit. I believe the flare out from the collector went out to 3". The whole thing was mild steel, ceramic coated. We dyno'd it and it made just over 230whp on a stroked b16 motor with an intake manifold. The only power comarison we have is that this same motor with an older Hytech side exit and ITBs made the same power.

Here are a few pics:















</TD></TR></TABLE>

very nice!!!!!!!! any pics installed in car?

 

Here's mine for an H22A1. 1.625" primaries, 32" long, within 1/8", 2.5" collector. Primaries all 321 stainless, the rest is 304. You can follow how I did it in my build diaries. Go here, http://www.kimini.com/Diaries/2003Late/ and it starts in late July




Modified by kb58 at 9:28 PM 10/27/2005

 

for a k serious in a civic water jet flanges, had to roll the cone, made the collect (will go burns next time) somewhat time comsuming. flange is 3/8" thick tubing is all 304 18ga all welds where purged.

 

Why wouldn't you at least try to make them close.Do you think that it doesn't matter or something.It makes a huge difference.your talking 15 to 20 hp from the shortest to the longest

 

damn some very good work you guys have here...bumps for more

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Wizard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why wouldn't you at least try to make them close.Do you think that it doesn't matter or something.It makes a huge difference.your talking 15 to 20 hp from the shortest to the longest</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry but maybe I'm missing something, what is 15-20hp from shortest to longest? Runner lengths you mean? Header design or power gains dont really work that way as far as I know... but like i said maybe i missed something here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Wizard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why wouldn't you at least try to make them close.Do you think that it doesn't matter or something.It makes a huge difference.your talking 15 to 20 hp from the shortest to the longest</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you trying to say that if we would have made the header equal legnth we would have gained 15-20hp? If so, you are mistaken. Equal legnth is nice, and on a turbo manifold it makes a huge difference, but for a side exit race header, the difference was minimal. We wanted to make a header that had as few bends as possible so as to keep the restrictions at a minimum. It worked very nicely.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93preludes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sorry but maybe I'm missing something, what is 15-20hp from shortest to longest? Runner lengths you mean? Header design or power gains don't really work that way as far as I know... but like i said maybe i missed something here.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think what he is talking about .Is if you made a header with all the primaries the correct length.(about 26").And one the same as your longest tube .( looks like about 42 to 45").That the correct length header will make 15-20 more HP.
And he is exactly right.Maybe even more.

Quote, originally posted by Mr.Wizard »
Why wouldn't you at least try to make them close.Do you think that it doesn't matter or something.It makes a huge difference.your talking 15 to 20 hp from the shortest to the longest

Are you trying to say that if we would have made the header equal length we would have gained 15-20hp? If so, you are mistaken. Equal length is nice, and on a turbo manifold it makes a huge difference, but for a side exit race header, the difference was minimal. We wanted to make a header that had as few bends as possible so as to keep the restrictions at a minimum. It worked very nicely.

I think you might want to study up on header design A bit more.Don't take this wrong .I'm trying to say this as nice as possible.But primary tube length is THEE MOST important part of a custom header.Then Dia..
Also you were talking about the least amount of bends.I have made headers that were tied in knots.And some perfectly straight.And I haven't seen any difference in tq. or HP.

 

We've made a few

 

like RMF was saying, with all the primaries different lengths you are losing the "scavenging effects." Basic header modification (all i've looked into so far) is that a good header requires the proper length for where you want to make power, smallest tube diameter that does not hurt the exaust flow, and you keep the tubes small to create a higher velocity so that it creates a vacuum.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accord387 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">like RMF was saying, with all the primaries different lengths you are losing the "scavenging effects." Basic header modification (all i've looked into so far) is that a good header requires the proper length for where you want to make power, smallest tube diameter that does not hurt the exaust flow, and you keep the tubes small to create a higher velocity so that it creates a vacuum.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup, a lot goes into an NA header... However, if guys want to shoot for pure peak HP, then a straight tube header with no bends at all, or minimal bends is what you need. Just like the funny cars or top fuel cars you see.

What goes into a header than can make power across the powerband yet still be able to flow like a straight tube or minimal bend (side dump, etc) is what guys like Hytech, SMSP, RMF, etc... are striving for. Problem with this though is a header design only works best under a certain condition; as we all know why we now have headers meant for near stock B18C or B16A, and then some for fully built high CR/big cam B20VTEC setups, some for high revving/peak power setups, etc...

 

From what I understand, the theory behind a N/A header is this: The primary length has to be tuned for a specific RPM range, and the collector size, contrary to popular belief, should only be 10-15% larger than the primary tube size. If timed correctly, in the given RPM range, the exhaust pulse from one cylinder will be exiting the collector just as the next cylinder's exhaust valve(s) open. As the pulse exits the collector, it develops a vacuum in the next tube, so that the exhaust from the next cylinder gets sucked into the header rather than pushed into it. I never went to the dyno, but I switched from a crap header to a proper built header and noticed a very significant increase in performance through the RPM range that the header was designed to work. Collector design is where most header manufacturers blow it. If the collector is too big, there will be no scavanging. Unequal primary lengths don't allow the header to work properly and IMHO, don't have much advantage over a stock manifold.

 

okay, i know its alot of pics but its hard to explain without pictures really how hard it is to make a true equal length header. this header is the result of alot of testing i did on toyota 4ags. the runners start at 1.5 inches then expand to 1 5/8 about 10 inches from the combustion chamber. all runners have been volume tested with water to get the lengths as close as i possible could. also the runners merge into the collecter in the proper firing order, something most people neglect. not dynoed yet but the first prototype i made which i put less effort into gave a solid 15% increase.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think what he is talking about .Is if you made a header with all the primaries the correct length.(about 26").And one the same as your longest tube .( looks like about 42 to 45").That the correct length header will make 15-20 more HP.
And he is exactly right.Maybe even more.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for that, the way it was stated just seemed a little confusing. I didnt quite understand it since I am still fighting with "Pressure Phonomena" in the scientific design of i/e systems. Thanks again for the guidance...

 

i wonder what RMF has to say about proper collector size, b/c i've heard people state between 10-25% of primaries diamter...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mr john &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">














okay, i know its alot of pics but its hard to explain without pictures really how hard it is to make a true equal length header. this header is the result of alot of testing i did on toyota 4ags. the runners start at 1.5 inches then expand to 1 5/8 about 10 inches from the combustion chamber. all runners have been volume tested with water to get the lengths as close as i possible could. also the runners merge into the collecter in the proper firing order, something most people neglect. not dynoed yet but the first prototype i made which i put less effort into gave a solid 15% increase. </TD></TR></TABLE>
amazing