The other day I was out topping out my 93 accord with a cold air intake on it. I got up to around 117 when the transmission started to slip. It seemed like the clutch would disinguage then go back in. I dont know whats wrong with it. I think it may need a new clutch but I'm not sure. It has the original clutch with 168,000 miles on it.
>Second, I wanna get a new header for my car, but I wanna keep it quiet so no useless cat back and all that. So would a new 4-2-1 header off ebay connected to the stock cat and exaust give me any hp gains? I dont know with the back pressure and all of that. Help me out please!

 

Judging from your mileage, that wouldn't surprise me if your clutch needs to be replaced. As for the header, probably not worth it. Unless you open up the whole system i.e. larger diameter piping, high flow cat, resonator, muffler, then don't be expecting any hp gains.

 

Sounds more like you hit the speed governor in your car.

 

Stop it, you're killing me (another "topping out" story") !!!!

Anyway, More than likely the clutch is the culprit. You're at the point of most resistance (rolling and wind) while at the same time pumping everything that 2.2 can give out.
Be ready to do the Clutch job twice unless you pick the brand of the kit carefully. There've been tales of bad Pressure Plates of late, you don't want one of them.... No.

The header question? You're not likely to gain anything you can feel, b'cuz the rest of the system now becomes the restricted area. You will gain underhood noise (however), so make sure Mr FosGate is up to the task.

P

I'm not sure on the Governor as mentioned in a earlier post. I believe those started in '96 model year (OBD2) systems........

Edited for stupid spelling mistake (as some noods would say "the spell checker wasn't working, so here I am with my dumb *** spelling error")



Modified by P_Adams at 9:01 PM 10/17/2005

 

Clutch??? Has nothing to do with the problem you are having or fact you are realizing IMO. Although with the mileage you, may need to replace. But, that is totally seperate issue. Its your speed governor!


Modified by GearSpeedEF7 at 1:02 PM 10/18/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GearSpeedEF7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Clutch??? Your clutch is doing nothing when you are in gear. Only has to do with engaging in gear and disengaging out of gear. Has nothing to do with the problem you are having or fact you are realizing. Although with the mileage you, may need to replace. But, that is totally seperate issue. Its your speed governor! </TD></TR></TABLE>

yea slow down

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GearSpeedEF7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Clutch??? Your clutch is doing nothing when you are in gear. Only has to do with engaging in gear and disengaging out of gear. Has nothing to do with the problem you are having or fact you are realizing. Although with the mileage you, may need to replace. But, that is totally seperate issue. Its your speed governor! </TD></TR></TABLE>His clutch is slipping. Do you not understand that the clutch is the only thing transfering power from the engine to the transmission. Do you think that there is some direct drive shaft between the two? This has to rank up there with the all time great responses I've read,

 

Some people don't understand the concept of slipping, chattering or grabbing clutches. To them, they just explode.

 

hahaha that's why when the clutch pedal is not being pressed the clutch is said to be engaged and when it is pressed it is disengaged. I don't post much but your right that **** was funny.

 

x2 for speed limiter

do the revs go up when this happens or does the car just seem to "die" then kick back in?

 

Thanks-
I really had no idea. I kinda feel like a dumbass now. The awnser to your question, the revs would go up. So that does make sence that I hit the governer, I just didnt think so because from what I head the 90-93 accord had no governer (except engine redline). Nonetheless thanks for help!

Scott

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GearSpeedEF7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

B. You know that the clutch has nothing to do with it because its not being used when the clutch pedal is not being pushed.
Modified by GearSpeedEF7 at 2:44 PM 10/17/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, sounds like a lot of misinformation or am I missing something?

The clutch, like someone said before is used to transfer power to the transmission from the engine. The clutch is used when pedal is not pressed and is disengaged when you press the pedal.

And it sounds like it might be a speed limiter.

 

i dont think its the speed governor. Mostly because i have a 5sp 92 Lx and ive taken her up to 125mph without a problem...Since ure clutch is 168,000 miles old, i would replace it even if it wasnt slipping at 117. New stage 1 clutch!!!!!111oneoneone

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GearSpeedEF7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B. You know that the clutch has nothing to do with it because its not being used when the clutch pedal is not being pushed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you kidding me? If that was the case, there would be no need for aftermarket clutches. You could own a 1,000hp Supra and still use the stock clutch. The whole purpose behind aftermarker clutches is to increase the clamping force. The reason for increasing clamping force is to reduce slippage. Take my 1,000hp Supra as an example. Let's say you mange to get the car moving and get up to 50mph without destroying your clutch. Now, you're cruising at 50mph in, let's say, 4th gear. You then proceed to stomp the gas to the floor. What do you think will happen? You are nowhere near the speed limiter, but I guarantee you that you're going to rev to the redline and probably not gain any speed at all; if not lose an mph or two. That clutch is gonna slip like mad.

Now, realise that this is an extreme example, but the principals are the same. If 93Accord117's clutch already has 168k miles on it, I would almost guarantee that he has slippage. I don't know if he has an EX or not, so I can't say that his limiter isn't acting at 117mph, but I know how the limiter feels in my Civic. When I hit it, my revs don't jump at all, they get lower if anything. I would say then, that maybe he has a combination of both problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ThagAnderson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Are you kidding me? If that was the case, there would be no need for aftermarket clutches. You could own a 1,000hp Supra and still use the stock clutch. The whole purpose behind aftermarker clutches is to increase the clamping force. The reason for increasing clamping force is to reduce slippage. Take my 1,000hp Supra as an example. Let's say you mange to get the car moving and get up to 50mph without destroying your clutch. Now, you're cruising at 50mph in, let's say, 4th gear. You then proceed to stomp the gas to the floor. What do you think will happen? You are nowhere near the speed limiter, but I guarantee you that you're going to rev to the redline and probably not gain any speed at all; if not lose an mph or two. That clutch is gonna slip like mad.

Now, realise that this is an extreme example, but the principals are the same. If 93Accord117's clutch already has 168k miles on it, I would almost guarantee that he has slippage. I don't know if he has an EX or not, so I can't say that his limiter isn't acting at 117mph, but I know how the limiter feels in my Civic. When I hit it, my revs don't jump at all, they get lower if anything. I would say then, that maybe he has a combination of both problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>



Good job for knowing how a clutch actually works. I have to weigh in though and say that it's unlikely that the only place he would notice the clutch slipping is at top speed. If it's going to slip, it will probably slip in all the gears. It is most likely the governor that is causing this sensation... oh yeah and by the way SLOW THE F*%K DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dumbass? No way guy. Being a dumbass would have been NOT asking the question.
And the question has merit, and I would presume some have learned by it. That's what we're here for; right?

My understanding of the speed governor's operation is that it works in the background much like the Rev Limiter. It would feel no different than pushing harder, but nothing improves. No bumping, no coughing no sputtering. It would just reach a point and would go no faster. (of course, going downhill with a good stiff tailwind would help.)

By what you just related that the RPM's increased without a related speed increase supports my original theory that the clutch started slipping as your power curve collided with aerodynamic and rolling drag forces.

P

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GearSpeedEF7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Clutch??? Your clutch is doing nothing when you are in gear. Only has to do with engaging in gear and disengaging out of gear. Has nothing to do with the problem you are having or fact you are realizing. Although with the mileage you, may need to replace. But, that is totally seperate issue. Its your speed governor! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank god some ******* common sense and basic car knowledge here. If you can get the car up to 117 in the first place it aint the clutch. Please everyone that said clutch go to howstuffworks.com and find out what in the hell you're talking about!

And ThagAnderson, your explanation is freaking ridiculous, although you have some points. First off if you baby it you can easily put 250k miles on a stock clutch. And still explain to me how he even got the car moving if his clutch is that bad, what's so special about 117 mph (hmm, couldn't be the governor could it?)? The real test for clamping force comes from initial acceleration like drag racing from a stand still, not constant acceleration/torque while you're already moving (that's why it takes a lot of torque to spin the tires). You could have a weak clamping clutch (I say weak not slipping) and still take it to 117 mph if you accelerate gradually and keep it from slipping. You're right as far as the clamping force for outright torque (like 1000 hp) but maintaining speed doesn't take much. He'd slip at every shift and never would have gotten up to speed if it were really that bad.


Modified by Schmitey at 12:57 AM 10/18/2005

 

Anyone who says the clutch is no longer doing anything after the shift is a total dumb ***. One more time for clarification: The clutch is the only thing that transfers power from the motor to the transmission. Whether or not this guys clutch was slipping is certainly up for debate since none of us were driving it, but you guys that think the clutch is only an aide to shifting are dead wrong. This man's problem aside, I ask you these questions. Is there such thing as clutch slippage? Why does it happen? What are the signs of a worn clutch? Why does a car, or fourwheeler, or forklift with a burnt clutch rev but not move if your 'already in gear and the clutch isn't doing anything'? Do you guys think that there is a solid shaft connecting the motor to the transmission? If not, what does connect them? Good clutches grab the pressure plate, by friction, when engaged and don't let go. Worn and burnt clutches will spin on the plate when torque is applied.


Modified by amckee at 8:57 AM 10/18/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crazy D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont think its the speed governor. Mostly because i have a 5sp 92 Lx and ive taken her up to 125mph without a problem...Since ure clutch is 168,000 miles old, i would replace it even if it wasnt slipping at 117. New stage 1 clutch!!!!!111oneoneone </TD></TR></TABLE>

If it's an EX no speed gov. On an LX speed gov about 120 mph. As for this guy above I think his speedo is off. See if he gets a speed gov to kick in at any speed. If he gets it at 130 say, he's speedos off.

 

[quote]
"Please everyone that said clutch go to howstuffworks.com and find out what in the hell you're talking about!" [unquote]

I'll go back to my 25 years as a tech for GM (remember them, 4spd 396 Chevelles, manual 442's, camaro's etc.) so PLEASE don't tell me how a clutch works and how it can't slip once engaged.
Hey, if that were the case, you could put any OEM clutch in a 1500hp funnycar and never have to worry, After all it's "all transmission" once it's hooked up; right?

 

[QUOTE=P_Adams]<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"Please everyone that said clutch go to howstuffworks.com and find out what in the hell you're talking about!" [unquote]

I'll go back to my 25 years as a tech for GM (remember them, 4spd 396 Chevelles, manual 442's, camaro's etc.) so PLEASE don't tell me how a clutch works and how it can't slip once engaged.
Hey, if that were the case, you could put any OEM clutch in a 1500hp funnycar and never have to worry, After all it's "all transmission" once it's hooked up; right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Keep in mind that we are talking about a pretty much stock 93 accord not a 1000hp supra, not a funny car, or chevelle. Maybe I am wrong at the full concept of a clutch on a high horsepower vehicle and how that much power can pretty much make anything slip!!LOL Thats asking a lot of a clutch and everything else associated but, this is an accord we are talking about.

 

You are wrong about the concept of the clutch, period. When you push the clutch pedal you are disengaging the pressure plate from the frictions. Now the clutch is doing nothing and the only connection between the moving parts of the motor and transmission is the throw-out bearing and the pilot bearing and they are just spinning. Any vehicle, regardless of horsepower, is capable of slipping a worn clutch. High horsepower vehicles are capable of slipping or blowing a good clutch. Same concept regardless of size or horsepower.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by amckee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are wrong about the concept of the clutch, period. When you push the clutch pedal you are disengaging the pressure plate from the frictions. Now the clutch is doing nothing and the only connection between the moving parts of the motor and transmission is the throw-out bearing and the pilot bearing and they are just spinning. Any vehicle, regardless of horsepower, is capable of slipping a worn clutch. High horsepower vehicles are capable of slipping or blowing a good clutch. Same concept regardless of size or horsepower. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah I understand that part!LOL ::scratching head at a long tedious days worth of web work!!:: More than anything I didn't think it was a slipping clutch because it would do it in all gears correct?...first gear more predominantly. I know in my first days of drag racing with B swaps running on stock ECU's that the speed gov. cutout would come around 115-120mph and give me that weird slip feeling (in and out surge). I knew that it was the governer when I had the ECU tuned and speed gov. removed because I no longer had the slip/surging feel at top mph for the car and it went past the 120mph mark! And this is still with the previous clutch setup and nothing on the car was changed but the ECU. I knew then what it was also with the advice of some people on this board.

I third the part: Slow the F*ck down. That is almost double the speed limit in some places! Cars act a little different at that MPH!!

Thank God I don't sell clutches or clutch components!!!


Modified by GearSpeedEF7 at 1:20 PM 10/18/2005

 

If his RPM increased, his clutch slipped. If it felt like he bogged down or was running out of gas, it was his governor. Description is everything when communicating like this and ALOT of people who write questions on this site have serious trouble describing their problems and with the English language in general. (93accord117, I'm not saying you have trouble with english.)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by amckee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If his RPM increased, his clutch slipped. If it felt like he bogged down or was running out of gas, it was his governor. Description is everything when communicating like this and ALOT of people who write questions on this site have serious trouble describing their problems and with the English language in general. (93accord117, I'm not saying you have trouble with english.)</TD></TR></TABLE>

You got that right No offense to anyone...but, it happens. We can't all be english majors