Q: What MY TL has the highest final drive ratio
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From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Acura TL, first time buyer - got questions
A few background facts. My Mom is interested in buying a newer car. She currently owns a 1991, 740 Volvo, with 170k. The entire drivetrain is still strong and the engine has good compression (although it needs a head gasket) but I get tired of all the intermittent electrical problems that crop up at the worst times (I also own a Volvo and know about Volvo hell). I used to work on Volkswagens for a living years ago, so, I have a ton of Snap-On tools and work on my own vehicles.
Mom likes the former TL body style better than the latest one, so it will almost for sure be a used Acura she would buy, and since she can't really afford a new one anyway, it is just as well. There were some other vehicles we considered, like the 2006 Hyundai Sonata XL. The Sonata is rated by Consumer Reports as the most reliable vehicle for two years in a row now. What I really like is that the Sonata has a maintenance free timing chain. I have replaced the timing belts myself on other vehicles and it is an involved job, but doable. But the main thing I dislike about newer close tolerance engines with belts is that they are all interference engines and that means big trouble if the belt breaks. The Sonatas downside is that it has no plush, luxurious interior like the Acura, and Mom said she felt the whole ride in her butt.
We also considered the Lexus ES330 and I was wondering if anyone knows why a dealer certified 02 Lexus ES330 is $27k, but a dealer certified 03 Acura TL is $22-$24k? ... yet, if I price out a new Lexus it comes to $35.2k and a new Acura TL comes to $36k + when I try to make them equal on the options. I suppose Lexus just does not depreciate as fast as a Lexus. But this does not make sense to me, I always heard the Acura was the better value. The Lexus comes with everything but they force one option on you, and the Acura needs things added to make it equal in features to the Lexus. At any rate, we still lean toward the Acura TL. We also considered some other vehicles but they were not as reliable or too pricey. But Consumer Reports said the 99-03 TL is jittery at highway speeds, and does not do so good on emergency handling. Of course, Mom would not drive a TL like CR does in their slalom for testing, but I am curious to hear from 99 thru 03 owners about these two aspects?.
After doing some research I discovered that the final drive ratio of some of the 2006 TL's is 4:44. The official specs for TL fuel mileage look good, but I recently talked to a former owner of an 2003 TL and he said he got lousy mileage. So, I got curious and discovered the 4:44 ratio for the 06, and assumed that it might be the same for the 2003 and that would explain the high fuel consumption. Did Acura ever make a higher gear transaxle, say like a 3:33 or 3:54 ? Mom would rather have good mileage at the expense of performance - she does not need performance. This Katrina thing changed fuel costs forever. Sad to say, fuel is an unregulated industry, they look for any excuse to gouge people (one oil company boasted 600 billlion in record profits).
... So, anyone know which MY has the highest gear ratio (lowest in numbers) ?
Other questions are:
Can TL's use regular gas, 87 octane, without other problems besides lack of performance?
What brand ECM (referring to the Ignition and Fuel Injection electronic control modules, i.e., the main computers in the vehicle) does the TL use?
Is there one ECM? two? or more, like the BMW 700 series has and is always in the shops?
Does the V6 TL have 4 O2 sensors, two CATS, and three or four mufflers?
I see a big price difference between dealer certified cars, private sellers, and non-certified roadside small car dealer lots (the kind with a 30 day warranty). I am curious to know how a small car dealer can sell a TL for $8k less than an Acura dealer, even if there is no warranty. Some of these TL's look very tempting on paper. So, the question is, are those $8k less Acura's flawed? ... Lemons? ... Dealer tested, rejected, and sold at auction? ... Does the TL suffer a flaw that cannot be easily detected, like cylinder head damage - the kind that unscrupulous sellers add block sealers to?
Any other recommendations or things I need to know about TL's?
diyer
Modified by diyer at 11:03 AM 9/28/2005
Mom likes the former TL body style better than the latest one, so it will almost for sure be a used Acura she would buy, and since she can't really afford a new one anyway, it is just as well. There were some other vehicles we considered, like the 2006 Hyundai Sonata XL. The Sonata is rated by Consumer Reports as the most reliable vehicle for two years in a row now. What I really like is that the Sonata has a maintenance free timing chain. I have replaced the timing belts myself on other vehicles and it is an involved job, but doable. But the main thing I dislike about newer close tolerance engines with belts is that they are all interference engines and that means big trouble if the belt breaks. The Sonatas downside is that it has no plush, luxurious interior like the Acura, and Mom said she felt the whole ride in her butt.
We also considered the Lexus ES330 and I was wondering if anyone knows why a dealer certified 02 Lexus ES330 is $27k, but a dealer certified 03 Acura TL is $22-$24k? ... yet, if I price out a new Lexus it comes to $35.2k and a new Acura TL comes to $36k + when I try to make them equal on the options. I suppose Lexus just does not depreciate as fast as a Lexus. But this does not make sense to me, I always heard the Acura was the better value. The Lexus comes with everything but they force one option on you, and the Acura needs things added to make it equal in features to the Lexus. At any rate, we still lean toward the Acura TL. We also considered some other vehicles but they were not as reliable or too pricey. But Consumer Reports said the 99-03 TL is jittery at highway speeds, and does not do so good on emergency handling. Of course, Mom would not drive a TL like CR does in their slalom for testing, but I am curious to hear from 99 thru 03 owners about these two aspects?.
After doing some research I discovered that the final drive ratio of some of the 2006 TL's is 4:44. The official specs for TL fuel mileage look good, but I recently talked to a former owner of an 2003 TL and he said he got lousy mileage. So, I got curious and discovered the 4:44 ratio for the 06, and assumed that it might be the same for the 2003 and that would explain the high fuel consumption. Did Acura ever make a higher gear transaxle, say like a 3:33 or 3:54 ? Mom would rather have good mileage at the expense of performance - she does not need performance. This Katrina thing changed fuel costs forever. Sad to say, fuel is an unregulated industry, they look for any excuse to gouge people (one oil company boasted 600 billlion in record profits).
... So, anyone know which MY has the highest gear ratio (lowest in numbers) ?
Other questions are:
Can TL's use regular gas, 87 octane, without other problems besides lack of performance?
What brand ECM (referring to the Ignition and Fuel Injection electronic control modules, i.e., the main computers in the vehicle) does the TL use?
Is there one ECM? two? or more, like the BMW 700 series has and is always in the shops?
Does the V6 TL have 4 O2 sensors, two CATS, and three or four mufflers?
I see a big price difference between dealer certified cars, private sellers, and non-certified roadside small car dealer lots (the kind with a 30 day warranty). I am curious to know how a small car dealer can sell a TL for $8k less than an Acura dealer, even if there is no warranty. Some of these TL's look very tempting on paper. So, the question is, are those $8k less Acura's flawed? ... Lemons? ... Dealer tested, rejected, and sold at auction? ... Does the TL suffer a flaw that cannot be easily detected, like cylinder head damage - the kind that unscrupulous sellers add block sealers to?
Any other recommendations or things I need to know about TL's?
diyer
Modified by diyer at 11:03 AM 9/28/2005
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,516
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From: so cal, USA
Re: Dear Site Admin: please delete this post, thank you ... (RynoDyno312)
if u want good gas mileage, get a civic. the tl is a v6 and i know the older type-s's were 11:1 compression, but i dont know about the regular model.
fd's arnt the only thing that variable on how much gas the car uses. for example, my turboed prelude got 23mpg with mixxed driving. i redlines at about 7000 and the gears are close. so, at 80 mph in 5th gear i was revving at ~4000 rpm's and i still got good gas mileage for a turboed car. i drove the car hard as well.
if your mom could live without the leather seats and such, tell her to go test drive civics.
at the price she is paying for a used TL, tell her to get a new tsx without navigation and it'll be about the same price. 25,000 or less before TTL
fd's arnt the only thing that variable on how much gas the car uses. for example, my turboed prelude got 23mpg with mixxed driving. i redlines at about 7000 and the gears are close. so, at 80 mph in 5th gear i was revving at ~4000 rpm's and i still got good gas mileage for a turboed car. i drove the car hard as well.
if your mom could live without the leather seats and such, tell her to go test drive civics.
at the price she is paying for a used TL, tell her to get a new tsx without navigation and it'll be about the same price. 25,000 or less before TTL
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* B A N N E D *
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 273
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From: Ardmore, Pa, US
Back to eMpAtHy
QUOTE: ... "if your Mom could live without the leather seats and such, tell her to go test drive civics" ...
Well, the thing she liked most about the TL was the interior leather seating. It was very comfortable for her and at a much better price than the prestigious Lexus. Actually, if Acura made a four cylinder TL "THAT" would be the ideal car for her. The only option I can figure is to find a Camry or Accord 4 cylinder, and take it to an upholstery shop and have it done up like a TL. But even that present problems, as one shop told me that the air bags all over the place would interfere with that type of customizing.
QUOTE: ... "at the price she is paying for a used TL, tell her to get a new TSX without navigation and it'll be about the same price. 25,000 or less before TL."
Is the TSX the same size as the TL. I think I already considered that but it was too small. She is looking for a mid-size sedan. For example the Acura RL is a too big and the Honda civics too small.
diyer
Well, the thing she liked most about the TL was the interior leather seating. It was very comfortable for her and at a much better price than the prestigious Lexus. Actually, if Acura made a four cylinder TL "THAT" would be the ideal car for her. The only option I can figure is to find a Camry or Accord 4 cylinder, and take it to an upholstery shop and have it done up like a TL. But even that present problems, as one shop told me that the air bags all over the place would interfere with that type of customizing.
QUOTE: ... "at the price she is paying for a used TL, tell her to get a new TSX without navigation and it'll be about the same price. 25,000 or less before TL."
Is the TSX the same size as the TL. I think I already considered that but it was too small. She is looking for a mid-size sedan. For example the Acura RL is a too big and the Honda civics too small.
diyer
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