So I searched but only to get a headache to find a honest answer...As you can tell, i am not too familiar with H series and a friend wants to know...

So the closed deck design come in the 4th gen preludes correct...? Does that go for the H23...?
I understand the open deck H22 sleeves are not boost friendly, does that mean the closed deck design will benefit more for boost...? Besides getting it sleeved, what is the max boost one should tune with a basic T3/T4 turbo set up on the stock bottom end...for both the H22 open and closed deck...?

 

i have a 1993 honda prelude Vtec with a H22A1 (motors bone stock) I think its closed deck but it has 157k miles on the motor now and i put on a drag gen 3 turbo kit on it at 149k and boost 13.5lbs every day it rarely gets that high till the end of 4th gear though, but its untuned just run the walboro255 and the FMU and i dare not go over that amount of boost cause well im already doing something many people have told me is dumb and that im lieing about and my motor wil lsurely go out esp since going over 11 is bad or something? Im not sure i just know mines still doing fine and dandy it burns some oil but no faster than it did before i put it on maybe half way down inbetween the two dots about every 3000 miles the motor stay pretty cool i guess though its gets really really hot under that hood esp after ive drove it for a couple hours lol but no harm seems to have developped yet. Dont even have a boost controller just have 2 bleeds in the vacuum line to the wastegate ( i know ghetto but im poor, also why its untuned) Best time ive ran at the drag strip was 13.65 @105.5 that was with 95 degree temp and who knows how much humidity i was have lots of traction problems so i bought some bf goodwrench drag radials 225 50R15 they dont rub at all big tires though still spin alot best i did with them was 13.73@106.3 that was the day after i got a new clutch (last week) cause it finished the one in it off and i was having trouble launching it (go street strip clutch hehe pretty stiff not like old clutch that barely came back up) thats all i can tell u still running strong though looking forward to better times this thursday

 

closed deck motors are better for boost. 92-96 ludes have the closed deck h22 and h23

 

thanks

So if one was to boost a stock H22 with moderate boost, would it would it be a no brainer to pick the closed deck, rather than the open deck...?

-How much boost could you run on a tune...before putting too much stress on the stock cylinders?

-Can you boost more on a stock closed deck over a open deck...?

-Is there any difference between a sleeved closed deck and a sleeved open deck...?


dang i ask too much Q's

 

if its well tuned and well assembled, one will be just as good as the other

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tarheelsoldier &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">closed deck motors are better for boost. 92-96 ludes have the closed deck h22 and h23</TD></TR></TABLE>

why is that? care to explain?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrettyLude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if its well tuned and well assembled, one will be just as good as the other</TD></TR></TABLE>

so a stock closed deck will not benefit for boost...over a stock open deck? If you had to decide, which stock bottom end would you go with...?

 

i would go with the open deck, that's what i have right now, its just a matter of personal preference really

you will hear alot of myths, like closed decks are better for boosting, but no one has any proof of why? and how.

 

..K thanks

But its true that stock H series are not good to boost. ...With that being said, what kit/setup goes best for a temporary stock bottom end?...because i know there has to be tons of people here with a boosted stock H series...are they just slapping a turbo on there and hoping everything will hold up, or is there a way to work with the stock deck correctly....? Good tune and moderate boost..? FMU and low boost..?



Modified by turbo95eg6 at 11:21 PM 9/27/2005

 

the weakest link the h series will be the ringlands, make sure you have a very very very good tune on it, if you want it to last

 

I thought the cylinder walls were the weakest link...? To me it would seem like a closed deck design would keep the walls from moving over the open deck...is this not true...?

 

no no, the ringlands are the weakest link, and no that's not necessarily true about the decks like you say

 

i always thought that closed was better because it reduced the movement of the cylinder walls under stress.....but no i dont have any proof....but metal on metal seems like a pretty solid connection....

correct me...thx

 

Thats what my though was....it seems like if ring lands were the issue, people would just buy aftermarket pistons for their H22's and call it a day, but instead all i hear from people is sleeve the block, the walls are too thin.

 

ah yeah the discussions on sleeved and forged internals drives me crazy. its obviously the best thing to do but with good tuning and low boost i don't see any harm in running a turbo on a stock motor. (my next project)

and as far as closed and open deck who knows... theyre definitely different designs but i dont see a big enough difference to worry about.

 

" the closed deck option on the obd1 engines offer more sleeve stability to deter the movement/distortion of sleeves under heavy loads"

"The reason why people swap pistons out in the H series engines are due to the weak ringlands."


this is the type of things i keep reading here by people who seems to know their H series...so i guess what im asking if is it pointless to boost a H22 without buying forged internals and sleeving the block...?

 

Couple of things to Keep in mind.

If your going to build the motor/sleeve it at some point, you might want to consider an Open Deck motor to start with.

If you dont have any plans to Build the motor or can source another block when your ready to build it, then I would stick with a Closed Deck block.

From What I know, the sleeving process between the two motors are completely different. On the closed deck motors, I believe all thats offered is a replacement liner/sleeve type deal. Not postive though.

On the Open deck blocks, sleeves can be utilized similiar to the B-Series sleeves on the market, which generally make the motor a Closed deck block. The result of the aftermarket closed deck/sleeve deal is going to be far stronger than the stock closed deck with replacement Liners.

-Matt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by This One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Couple of things to Keep in mind.

If your going to build the motor/sleeve it at some point, you might want to consider an Open Deck motor to start with.

If you dont have any plans to Build the motor or can source another block when your ready to build it, then I would stick with a Closed Deck block.

From What I know, the sleeving process between the two motors are completely different. On the closed deck motors, I believe all thats offered is a replacement liner/sleeve type deal. Not postive though.

On the Open deck blocks, sleeves can be utilized similiar to the B-Series sleeves on the market, which generally make the motor a Closed deck block. The result of the aftermarket closed deck/sleeve deal is going to be far stronger than the stock closed deck with replacement Liners.

-Matt</TD></TR></TABLE>


They make sleeve kits for closed deck blocks... i have it. If u call and talk to darton they have two kinds of sleeves available for the closed deck motor. stock replacements and the aftermarket ones. the stock replacements are good for up to about 15lbs while the other ones are good for 40+lbs.

 

earl has done some sleeves for closed decks

turbo95eg6 you do know that you can't run forged pistons with these sleeves right? thats why you have to resleeve, cuz of the frm

 

stock, i would stay below 10 lbs on a good tune, for stock boosting, the rings are the weak point staying around 10 lbs, if you are going to go for higher boosts, you are going to want aftermarket pistons, in which case the weak rings no longer matter as you HAVE TO RESLEEVE ANYWAYS DUE TO THE FRM LININGS TO RUN FORGED PISTONS, at this point the closed deck vs. open deck would be best answered in the forced induction forum, for closed deck they would drill out the frm sleeves and drop in seperate iron ones, so it would be four individual sleeves, whereas an open deck would be four sleeves connected to each other, if you were planning on boring to increase cylinder diameter the open deck would prolly let you bore more and you could throw a block guard on for extra strength, correct me if im wrong

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by buffalo wings &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for closed deck they would drill out the frm sleeves and drop in seperate iron ones, so it would be four individual sleeves, whereas an open deck would be four sleeves connected to each other, if you were planning on boring to increase cylinder diameter the open deck would prolly let you bore more and you could throw a block guard on for extra strength, correct me if im wrong</TD></TR></TABLE>

incorrect, open deck sleeved blocks have 4 individual sleeves inserted into each the cylinder, its the same as the closed deck.

ps dont use a block guard, a good sleeved block is all you need

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mykizism &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

incorrect, open deck sleeved blocks have 4 individual sleeves inserted into each the cylinder, its the same as the closed deck.

ps dont use a block guard, a good sleeved block is all you need</TD></TR></TABLE>

so sleeves are only connected when from the factory correct??

 

K, things are starting to make more sense. I wasnt too familiar with the frm coating on the sleeves...Sounds like my buddy should start with boosting his stock closed deck, then buy a open deck to build/sleeve. That is, unless he should just build his closed deck. From what im getting, there will not really be too much of a difference between the two designs once they are sleeved.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbo95eg6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">K, things are starting to make more sense. I wasnt too familiar with the frm coating on the sleeves...Sounds like my buddy should start with boosting his stock closed deck, then buy a open deck to build/sleeve. That is, unless he should just build his closed deck. From what im getting, there will not really be too much of a difference between the two designs once they are sleeved. </TD></TR></TABLE>.

just as i was telling you, if the sleeve job is done properly, there will not be that much of a difference, the assembly and sleeving process play a big role in everything

 

Correct only the from the factory the block is casted with all the cylinders connected i have pictures to show you guys, i will post them later tonight