So I've got two ways of getting there from stock...

1) boost
2) N/A

My question is do I have a shot in hell of attaining these numbers AND staying within CA emissions with either of these options? I'm not worried about being legal 100% of the time, but I need to be able to pass my inspection every two years without having to pull my engine.

Also, if I go N/A...there's no way I'll get these numbers by just swapping the pistons and valve train, right? Can I get there with just those mods and tuning? Or will I need to bore my head and IM?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pbink &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So I've got two ways of getting there from stock...

1) boost
2) N/A

My question is do I have a shot in hell of attaining these numbers AND staying within CA emissions with either of these options? I'm not worried about being legal 100% of the time, but I need to be able to pass my inspection every two years without having to pull my engine.

Also, if I go N/A...there's no way I'll get these numbers by just swapping the pistons and valve train, right? Can I get there with just those mods and tuning? Or will I need to bore my head and IM?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i don't think it's possible to hit 275 whp on an NA h23. 275 bhp, maybe, but, it'll cost a TON of money. you're gonna have to go turbo to hit those #'s, dood.

also, there's no way you can stay CA emissions legal and make that much power, as far as i can tell.

 

okay...

So from the stock 160 bhp, how much power could I get without boost and without having to ***** myself out on Sunset Blvd? Would 200 bhp (~175 whp) require me to lease my *** to strangers, or could it be done for under $4K (not including I/H/E)?

I'm still not getting how N/A gains are made...is there no way to get more power without increasing displacement? Upgrading the valvetrain/camshafts can yeild more power, correct? Then the rest is all ECU programming?

 

you can up the compression for NA

nitrous possible option? dunno about california laws.

you could make a 175hp NA and make over 200hp on nitrous. $4k seems like a pretty good chunk of change to work with.

 

So increasing compression ratio up from stock 9.8:1 could be done by swapping in new (longer) pistons or by lowering head, correct? Is that called "milling the head"?

And upping compression also requires upgrading other parts as well for integrity, right? If I lowered the head, what would be at risk of being damaged? Does the valve train need to be upgraded as well, or is that completely unrelated to increased compression?

I can search for hours on this stuff, but bear with me, seeing the whole picture is nearly impossible to see when the info is scattered around dozens of threads. Just looking for some confirmation here. Any help is always apreciated!

 

crap, also does anyone know how increasing compression would affect the emissions? I'm assuming that I would have to reprogram the ECU to take advantage of the increased compression, which could throw my emissions out of whack for CA...am I making sense here?

 

I don't know about Cali emissions, but if you're only looking for 200bhp and have 4 grand why not just go h22? It'll pass emissions fine, be reliable, and with some BPU be over 200 bhp. Stick some giggle gas on there and you'll hit 275 bhp.

 

I put a turbo on my h23, secondary injectors, half inch fuel rail, and bigger fuel pump. The car made 255 at the wheels with only nine pounds of boost. I upgraded to a bigger turbo and built the motor and added a hondata, and now it makes 450 at wheels with 25 pounds of boost. I still have the secondary injector set up with mf2 piggy back to run the injectors, give em to ya cheap.

 

This is how you get 275+WHP and still pass emissions.

1. Sleeve Block
2. Forged Pistons at 10.0:1 Compression Ratio
3. Run Aftermarket Valvetrain
4. CARB Exempt Header like Greddy 4-2-1 Heade
5. CARB Exempt Intake like AEM or Inken
6. Run Stock Cams, Stock ECU, Stock Everything Else

Now you have bascially a stock spec motor w/ bolt-ons that will pass emissions.

To obtain 275+WHP, run a 150 Shot of Direct Port Nitrous. Since you have a built block, it will handle it.

Note: Do not run nitrous during smog check.

 

you could pass smog with a turbo kit if the shop ignores the visual, with the sniffer test rpms usually stay low enough where boost has hardly kicked in, but there are no carb legal turbo kits for lude, only civic/teg, also not sure if jr supercharger is carb for h23 or not

 

I have an h23 and this is what I have found w/ prices to get around 200whp

stage 2 cams(crower) 500
forged pistons(11.5 cr) and sleeved block - 900
springs and retainers - 400
I/H/E - 900
ECU and dyno tuning 500 - ????????

total 3200 at least

Hope that is a little help

 

i have an h22 and this is how i got 200whp

h22 - $1500
rmf header - $850
replica j's racing intake - $50
hondata s200 - $250
socketed p72 - $100
dyno tune @ RLZ - priceless....just kidding it was 150

$2900 - 200whp

much more able to make smog due to the fact that all you have to do is stick the stock header and cat back on, that takes all of 2 hours at the most.....

if you want to keep the h23 for some odd reason....then go turbo, all motor h23 is just a waste of money....then you will get the hp you want....

if you get an h22, 200whp will be very satisfying, trust me....and if you must spend a ton of money, you could hit 275....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">h22 - $1500</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is one discrepency that I've not been able to figure out...why am I under the impression that a full H22A swap for my '93 accord would run me at least $3.5K? I've mentioned to some people that I've seen deals for full H22 swaps for around $3K and got laughed at. Some said as high as $4K...what's the dilly?

I know I'm really bad about running like three topics in one thread, but bear with me...would it be wise to get an older H22 with high mileage? If I got forged pistons/sleeves put in, is there anything else that is notorious for going out on old H22s?

 

if you get the trans and everything then yes....but since you were gonna get an h23, just use the h23 tranny...and the mounts you were gonna use for the h23....

as long as you have a good oil pump the block will be fine.....

 

this is great info...much appreciated everyone. I've got some research to do on N/A gains though...other than increasing compression (which as far as I understand just gives a bigger bang on each power stroke w/ same amount of fuel being used) I'm not understanding the rest of it...

Also...

Cams and cam gears are two separate things, correct?

 

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For one man you need a basic understanding of how internal combustion engines work . Try http://www.howstuffworks.com, you will find a wealth of info there. The h23 is a very capable engine but generally speaking high compression N/A motors have higher reving capabilites. You will have a bitch of a time keeping the engine in one peice revving it high enough to make that kind of power using gasoline and and a streetable compression ratio... Cams are what open the valves, cam gears are connected to the end of the camshaft and are kind of like pulleys and spin the camshafts. Just sheck out the place it has a great breakdown of an engine
Joe

 

thanks for the info...

like I said, I do have a lot to learn...it's just that I'm at a point where I understand the basic components of the engine, and am now trying to understand the physics involved in getting them to their full potential. About the cams...I guess I was confused with the shortened term "cam"...wasn't positive if it refered to the cam gears, camshafts, or cam lobes. Thanks again everyone. Hope to see you all in my next post ;]

 

i have a h22a1 full turbo kit for sale barely used... details (keep in mind this whole setup would cost at least 3500to4k)

rebuilt and polished IHI GM-5 T3/T04E
TiAL 35mm Wastegate /10 psi spring
*NEW* JRC FMIC 30x8.5x3.125
H22 SFP Manifold
450cc Peak/Hold Injectors
P28 w/Uberdata (setup for 450's)
GReddy catch can
autometer air/fuel gauge
autometer boost gauge
^^^ w/ dual pillar pod
k&n filter
Oil feed line
Oil T fitting
Oil return line
Tapped H22 oil pan
Greddy turbo timer
Intercooler piping
XS RFL BOV
Down Pipe
Heat Wrap
E Cut
O2 sensor
MBC
MISC stuff(nuts bolts etc)

check out turbo-kits.com they have similar turbo kits (w/o the tuned ecu) dynoing @ 288whp on stock internals.. this is at 8 psi

only asking 2100 obo, plz serious inquiries only last sale fell through and lowered the price so i can get some cash on hand. thx.

 

with 4000, you're not going to have enough to go NA and hit 275 bhp. go boost and shoot for 300 whp. 300 whp can be achieved with 4000. im at work right now, so i will try and elaborate when i get home.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pbink &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for the info...

like I said, I do have a lot to learn...it's just that I'm at a point where I understand the basic components of the engine, and am now trying to understand the physics involved in getting them to their full potential. About the cams...I guess I was confused with the shortened term "cam"...wasn't positive if it refered to the cam gears, camshafts, or cam lobes. Thanks again everyone. Hope to see you all in my next post ;]</TD></TR></TABLE>

the physics of pumping more hp out of an engine:

get as much gas and air shoved into the cylinder
compact it as small as possible and explode it
get it out of the cylinder in time for the next cycle

you can probably see the upgrades from there...

cam refers to a camshaft....