Like i said i have a tradgic story....

So i just spent alot of money on this motor, and after i get it runnin its runnin perfect, i didnt have any problems at all, i did my valve adjustment to spec, hit it with a timing light, and had a wideband o2 reading 14.67. Im drivin down the street about 30mph 2nd gear 4200rpms and the motor seizes. I get the thing towed to my house take it apart and 2 valves broke, one is bent (all in cyl 3) the cylinder wall is fucked up, the combustion chamber is fucked up, and my piston is in hundreds of pieces in my oil pan, and the rod is still intact, pin and all, just bent. Any ideas as to what could have caused this, and if it could be the machine shops fault (they ported and polished, milled, and assembled my head)? And my timing was all fine after i seized.

I dont know how to post pictures, so here go to my cardomain sight, i got pics up there... be prepared, its ugly

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/1474662


Anyways, im gonna be starting all over, and the only left over parts in my old engine for internals is my crower stg3. What do all of you experts recomend i do to achieve my 250whp. I was thinkin everything i had before, plus some 11.0:1 JE, maybe bore out to 88 with some darton sleevs, idk what else to do for internals. Also i wanted to tune with p72obd1 and hondata s200


my set up is/was...

93 H22a1 with....
AEM cold air intake
full exhaust set up (no cat)
throttle body spacer
port and polish (5angle valve job)
Skunk2 valve springs
Skunk2 1mm oversized high compression valves
Skunk2 Titanium retainers
milled head
Crower stage 3 cams
Volution adjustable cam gears
MSD wires
Bosh 4 electrode plugs
XTD stage 3 clutch
XTD light weight flywheel
underdrivepulley
AEM powerpullies
DC short shifter
Power Slot slotted rotors
PLX wideband o2 sensor


Modified by 93h22a1vtec at 8:10 PM 9/26/2005


Modified by 93h22a1vtec at 8:19 PM 9/26/2005

 

what do the retainers look like on those valves that dropped?? valve to valve clearance issues with this oversized valves and those particular camshafts??? timing belt tension, might have skipped a tooth.

 

no valves dropped, all valves were hitting, and one finnally snapped, or cracked piston and blew up. Retainers seem fine, all keepers are still on

 

you sir floated the valves, even though your keeper and retainers are still intact, at one point your valves did hit the pistons and broke, that's how your piston disintergrated

 

Valves were hitting in every cylinder, and i believe they were doing it the entire time, i only had 63 miles. So i think it was more of a clearance issue, im thinkin the machine shop milled to much off the head, im gonna mic it tomarrow if i get the mic, and see if its out of spec.

 

that oversized valves might be the problem, you might have valve to valve clearance issue (int vs exh) rather than piston to valve clearances

 

did you clay to see if there was in interferance? Some material may have needed to be taken off the piston?

 

sorry for your troubles.


but


you definitly need a" professional" build

these valves are very thin stems, they do bend easy.....these engines run fine even graziing the pistons.....it takes some severe interference for the engine to do what it did.........IMO,I don't believe it is just a slight valve to valve issue.

a professional build includes a full blueprint, the cams degreed in properly, specs on where the intake and exhaust cams can be advanced and retarded with proper valve to valve clearance........the engine has to be clayed and everything checked at least twice.


Modified by PocketRockets Racing at 11:58 PM 9/26/2005


Modified by PocketRockets Racing at 12:05 AM 9/27/2005

 

i have a kind of non-related question, werent you kinda overcamming the motor with crower 3s on that not so high compression?

 

The oversized valves with the Cams, along with the milling the head. That all is a very bad combo. You didnt Clay the motor before starting her up?

 

i say it was the valve to valve clearance...some people here on HT wont even run oversized valves with stage 1 cams...if you had 1mm oversized on intake and exhaust, i'm pretty sure that's what made them break.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crx=si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you sir floated the valves, even though your keeper and retainers are still intact, at one point your valves did hit the pistons and broke, that's how your piston disintergrated</TD></TR></TABLE>

pretty difficult to float valves at 4200 rpm

 

SKUNK2 valves are not good. ive seen two cars already that dropped a valve or snapped a valve, plus many more stories right here on honda-tech

 

that pic looks like the valve hit the piston

sounds like whoever put the head on didnt check.

if your machinist did any of that id think its his fault

 

not the machinest fault...he just installed the products the customer told him to..its not his responsibility...you should have never ran oversized valves and stage 3 cams, and on top of that the head was milled...damn.. well goodluck with the next setup.

edit:how much was your head milled?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93h22a1vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Any ideas as to what could have caused this

What do all of you experts recomend i do to achieve my 250whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looks like either valve failure or clearance problems to me.

250whp will not be easy. I'd suggest 89mm bore, 12:1 CR, and a good header for starters.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SB tuning &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not the machinest fault...he just installed the products the customer told him to..its not his responsibility...you should have never ran oversized valves and stage 3 cams, and on top of that the head was milled...damn.. well goodluck with the next setup.

edit:how much was your head milled?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly what i thought when i read this thread. The clearence was never checked. Hell on a stage 3 cam you know that its already dangerous to run oversized valves, just by the idea that its a stage 3 cam. And by not checking the clearences before hand, i cant say i told you so. Good luck though, and next time go with stock valves.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyrod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Looks like either valve failure or clearance problems to me.

250whp will not be easy. I'd suggest 89mm bore, 12:1 CR, and a good header for starters.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A good header, A well worked head, by like portflow or ALANIZ or RLZ. 12:1 comp, JUN cams And broken in right meaning taken to the dyno as soon as you get the car running. Thats how you make numbers like that. O and a Euro R manifold would help in that department also.

 

/\ my thoughts exactly.

and sorry about your motor.

 

I think your lucky you got 63 miles out of them A few factors involved would be the lift/aggressiveness of the cams and oversized valves. That is a no no to the best of my knowledge or so skunk2 says... I run SS valves but just stock replacements...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ExplicitSpeed360 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think your lucky you got 63 miles out of them A few factors involved would be the lift/aggressiveness of the cams and oversized valves. That is a no no to the best of my knowledge or so skunk2 says... I run SS valves but just stock replacements...</TD></TR></TABLE>

only thing i would have done would have been flat face for a little more compression...other then that wth stage 3 cams i would stay stock size.

 

Yea, the problem was the oversized valves hit the pistons, stock size would have made it work. This ****** sucks, anyways, yea i didnt clay it but i didnt do that because the machine shop told me i will have clearance.

They took 15 thousandths off.

My new set up that im thinkin about....

block:
88mm bore
darton sleves
highest compression possible on 93 oct (im thinkin 11.5 think i can go higher??)
IDK what kinda pistons yet though, im thinkin JE
New rods, idk what kind yet

head:
crower stg 3
sk2 valve springs and retainers
IDK what valves im gonna run yet, but def high comp. and idk if i can go back to stock size now that they have already bored it out, so im gonna have to get pistons with large enough cut outs.

Suggestions welcome for what i should run with my next set up, internal wise. again, im lookin for 250 whp after tune with s200 and p72

 

A very good port job, 11.5 pistons, jun cams, a good programable ECU, a good header, Accord Euro IM, and a larger TB should get you damn close to 250whp.

 

well that setup you have goin sounds like it has the potential of hitting 250hp sucks to hear about your previous. I hope you get that on 93. If you do i want it too. Why do you want to run 93 octance? just curious,

 

93 octane = pump gas

i dont want to be runnin race gas

anyone know the highest compression i can go on 93, im thinkin 12:1, but even that i think is pushin it

 

Anyone ever notice how heavy those flat face valves are. I measured those agianst a ferrea valve and found a 5 gram diff. in one valve.