Hi folks,
I would love some input here. Car is a 92 civic / ITR hybrid w GC coilovers / tokico illuminas/ stock front bar / ITR rear sway bar. Current spring rates are around 350f / 275r.

The car has recently become a track only toy so I am looking to bump up the spring rates. I would appreciate folks input on what spring rates to use in the following two scenarios:

Option One - I keep the illuminas (which limits spring rates).

Option Two - I buy new shocks (so anything goes) - your opinion on which shocks / coilovers to buy would also be helpful.


Thanks everyone!



[Modified by ITR_Hybrid, 9:28 PM 3/1/2002]

 

Start with 550 F & 700 R. I say start because, depending on how you like your car to handle & your level of experience, you WILL need to make changes. You won't want to run the super high rates that, say the WC guys do. Not unless you have a cage which stiffens the chassis as much as they do. I'm not really sure why everyone discounts the ability/quality of the Illuminas. Seem like a pretty decent shock to me.

 

Whats your new daily driver phil?

 

Lemme know if you wanna sell your 275s. I'd be interested in 'em.

-Mike

 

My setup is a '94 b20vtec hatch. I'm running 375f/450r with an ITR/GSR bar in front and ITR in rear. Koni yellows as well. I used Illuminas on another car I had, with similar spring rates and they blew out in less than 9 months.


[Modified by jg, 5:40 AM 3/2/2002]

 

Phil, how much does your car weigh?

Like we discussed at VIR, I'd definitely put higher rate springs in the back. Catch 22 ran springs as high as 600lbs rear on a set of Illuminas and they held up. This on an Integra like mine which is heavier than your car.

Maybe 400/500? Also set your toe to zero if you haven't already. Any toe out in the back with the high rear rates will mean a car that is decidedly unfun to drive.

 

Karl,
The car weighs about 2450 without me.
-Phillip

 

I have had mine for over three years. Started with Sportlines on them. Moved to 300/375 to 375/450 to 450/550 & now 600/750. No problems. I thought about switching to Koni. Two local racers who run SVWC said to stay with the Illuminas unless I was going custom. Illuminas have a lifetime warrenty. They will usually take them back unless there is signs of abuse ie scored shaft or dents in body. Before the start of the season, I had the car apart. I compared the shocks to new ones @ my buddies shop. The completely unscientific hand/eye shock dyno said "still good".

 

I would go would go with a 400/500 rate with the shocks.. but what do i know, i still have 275s or something....

 

It's a dedicated track toy now, Phillip? Sweet! Then I would honestly recommend a "matched" setup from Truechoice, like their Phase Three Koni DA/Eibach ERS setup, particular to your application and uses, with probably double the springrates you are currently running (and particularly more than double in the rear). Yes, it will cost a bunch of $$$, but it will pay off if you want proper suspension onboard to maximize that 180+ whp.

As for Illuminas... opinions vary across-the-board. I've heard as many "I've had 'em for 3 years and still love 'em" stories as I have heard "I blew 'em up in 6 months with non-radical springs" stories. It seems like they are worse on RWD cars, from what I have heard... but I know they can't handle the kind of monster springrates you can utilize in this situation for sure.

(To quantify that generalization, I have seen shock dyno charts from several sources and it's apparent that an Illumina is on-par with or slightly less effective than an AGX, but not up to the standards of a Koni or Bilstein. I can probably dig these charts out of my archives and post/email them, if anyone cares.)

PS- My closest "budget" recommendation is off-the-shelf Koni Sports with 400/600 GC's or similar. Although this is virtually the same as the Truechoice Phase 2 setup, so you might call and see what they recommend first.

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

If you have some coin to spend, you might also check out http://www.opmmotorsports.com/honda.html. Look @ the Koni units they are offering.

Jon, I don't know if others would want to, but I would love to get a email of the shock dyno for both the Illumina & AGX. Please email them to me @ quanms@mindspring.com. Funny thing is that around here, the AGX's have the rep for blowing up.
Thanks, Mike

 

Hey Mike, I'll do my best to dig that stuff up tomorrow and email it out (anyone else interested in a cc, please IM or email me). Unfortunately I am currently working off of 3 computers in various locations, so... I just gotta figure out where exactly I saved those darn graph jpeg's.

As for me: I have no real experience with the Illuminas because the only set I ever owned came installed by the previous owner on an old RX-7 I used to plow around in, and I have no idea how much abuse they had been through, so I don't consider that an experience worthy of comment.

But I've had great luck with the AGX's so far (2 sets, 3rd one incoming, each with a different - but relatively mild compared to roadrace spec - spring setup) on my 91 & 93 SE-R's. Then again, this is a car that will blow out Koni Sports and void their warranty in a year of street/autox use, with stock springs (ask Joe Henderson at Rosen Autosport, he wasted $600 teaching us that lesson...)

PS- Lee Grimes @ Koni has at least some of these same graphs on file. You can probably also get similar shock dyno details from Truechoice, Mike O at Shocktek, and the guys at Motivational Engineering. Those folks all know a LOT more about the details than I do...

Hope that helps,

Jon