just had my car sideways and scared the **** out of me , not even pushing the car on a rolling hill with a hard left , car in front car in front of me , lightly applied the brakes and the *** end rolls around on me. it made me ponder on my current set-up and the fact the i believe to need stiffer springs up front to dial out a little oversteer.

heres the current set-up
93 civic hb
springs 200f/350r itr rear bar w/reinforcement kit
kyb agx's currently set at 2f/2r

i'm thinking of moving up to 250 or so springs based on some suggestions from a few people -

the car sees abusive street driving and light track duty this year w/some auto-x depending on my schedule -

what do you guys think of this set-up or is it possible my car needs something else?

any help is great - thanks

Jamie - who is not into drifting of any sort on a public road and is still a little shakin from his "little" incident

 

i put this in the civic forum by mistake -

someone will probably tell me light-up valve stems will fix my problem

 

rofl. thats great.

(BTW, thats why i'm here instead of other honda places )

Oh yea, and sorry i dunno what to say about your problem. Personally, after i learned my GSR's handling after suspension upgrades, i like the oversteer.

 

I've never seen anyone run such low rates on a coilover setup, so i relly don't know where to start. Most people use 350ish fornt and 400-600 rear on dual use cars. Higher for track only.

 

What did i tell you about the *** end.................!!!!!

 

Looks like your stiffer rear springs are rear sway bar may be reducing understeer too much for you liking. Upping the front spring rate to ~300 lbs/in might balance it out nicely.

 

thanks for letting me know again jack , here have one on me

 

i think i'm gonna try 350f/500r this weekend and see how that goes .....after drew gives me an opinion on my current set-up , maybe i just need to learn how to drive

 

I think the 150 lb difference is the problem, so if you go 350/500, you've really not done anything different except rattle all the fillings out of your head and loosen all the body pannels.

I don't see swaybars mentioned, but I assume you've got a big-*** rear bar too.

I might try 300/350 before 350/500. Those 500 lb/in spring are not going to be any fun on the street. Unless you like spinal compression.

 

Okay,
You can turn while brakeing but dont brake while turning.
Its not the spring rates.A little bit of brake pressure during a turn can really make the **** end loose.Which in a controlled track condition can be a lot of fun.Some times understeer can **** you off and that little dab on the brakes helps to alleviate the problem.Not the quickest way around the track but a lot of fun to play with when you have room.
This of course is related to closed course *****.If you are having these problems on the street then just try backing off.I hope you dont take this as a flame.31 years of driving only the last 5 have really counted.

 

Turn while braking... trail braking... always done on the streets... a 1/10th. Every car I see on the street has the brake lights on while turning. At 10/10ths it'll induce some nice rotation.
I practice "always brake in a strait line" on public roads... scrubbing off enough speed (30 down to 15) so I don't need to brake after turn-in while taking a right onto Rockville Pike. Then nail apex... track out into right lane...

 

Do you have a front bar? You may need one to balance the large-ish rear one out. The rates don't sound terribly crazy to me.

 

If you don't like the oversteer now, DO NOT DO THAT. I didn't see any mention of a front bar. Do you have one? With your current setup, I would either add a front bar or change to stiffer springs in the front. Try getting a EX or Si bar up front. If you want to go the spring route, change out the front to something like 300# or 350#. Do one or the other & see how you like it. What are alignment settings? If you are running toe out in the rear, dialing in a little toe in (1/16") can do wonders. HTH.

 

sorry i left out a few things

i am certain now it was driver error went back and checked out the road , convex top of a hill , totally unweighted the car then the light brake just kicked it around

and i have an si so i believe the fron bar is 22 or 21 mm , and i'm gonna look into either 250-275 for the front -

thanks guys

 

Let's not jump to conclusions about the car being "*** happy" From your description what you experienced is classic lift-throttle oversteer. This is especially likely when you are cresting a hill, turning and braking all at the same time.

Does your car really oversteer in steady state? That is what I would call "*** happy" A neutral car will go into oversteer in the situation you describe.

Nothing personal but it sounds like you were just surprised by it. This is why the car manufacturers dial in understeer - so that unwary drivers don't induce a spin when they do a panic lift or brake in a corner.

To me 200F 350R with a bigger rear bar sounds like an aggressively neutral but dangerous street setup.

If you want to try to make it a little more predictable for no money then stiffen the front shocks and soften the rears. This will make the front wash out on turn in quicker than the rear and it might reduce the suddenness of lift throttle oversteer.

Another suggestion is to put the stock rear bar back in or just remove the rear bar altogether. this effectively reduces your rear spring rate again at no cost.

Bottom line is you've done the right things to make the car more neutral but with that comes the dangers of snap oversteer.

Regards,
Alan