Alright its been a while since I gave a crap about my motor and now I thought I knew how to accomplish this aparently easy task of seting your motor up to installa timing belt but I just cant do it. Ive made 2 other threads before and got lots of info but I dunno what Im doing wrong so whoever wants to take the time to listen to my problems, diagnosis and request pics or look at my own Id appreciate it alot as this is the last thing other than clutch install I have to do before I drop in my motor.

The motor is a D16a6 head and block

Where I stood last time I posted


Where I am now, no real difference, just picked up a timing cover and got more pissed off that I couldnt do this myself after assembling it no problem


The problem:
I set both crank and head to TDC. I set the crank by putting a screwdriver in the piston hole closest to the crankpulley and turning the crank until the screwdriver is at its highest point. I set the head by going by the 2 marking on my AEM Tru Time can gear that are on the sides, there are two marking on the gear that I allign parallel with the valve cover surface.

The timing belt is already around the bottom of the crank, around the tensioner and around the oil pump, so I press down form the exhaust side on the tensioner and pull as much slack as I can towards the pump and place the belt over the cam gear, lots of slack from the cam gear to the crank. I then undo the tensioner so it grabs the slack to the oil pump but theres still tons on the gear to the crank.

I tried this system many times, sometimes it looks like the belt is jumping on the bottom of the crank, one time I got it to grab but because there was so much slack from the cam gear to the crank, it totally threw off the positioning and I jsut spun it a bit and it was ******* tight and hard as **** to crank ( Im spinning counter clockwise BTW )

Im sorry this is my first motor Ive ever built but Im really lost to this and i really should have spent more time on it instead of neglecting this car but now I want it done. Hopefully Im just doing something stupid wrong, but if need be I will take off the head and start over to make sure I didnt **** anything up or spin the wrong way or whatever.

Ask for any pictures, anthing Ive done. I want this motor to run when I start it up, not grind and seize up. I really need someone to bare with me and help

Thanks

 

Is it the right belt?

 

loosen the tensioner belt, push/pull the tensioner down and hold, now tighten the bolt. place the belt on the crank gear and hold with one hand, with the other hand put the belt in the cam pulley, make sure that it is tight, you may need to rotate the cam very slightly, then put the belt on the h20 pump then slide onto tensioner. Now losen tensioner and let the spring pull it tight and tighten, rotate a couple times counterclockwise and recheck timing, Z6 use different cam timing marks than non vtecs, the go by the little arrow on the inner cover

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tech6023 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Z6 use different cam timing marks than non vtecs, the go by the little arrow on the inner cover</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is true for A6's too.

Another note, when you set TDC for the block, look for the TDC mark on the crank pulley to line up with the timing cover. Otherwise you might set it on TDC of the exhaust stroke.

You are putting the belt around the tensioner right? And the most important question...do you have a helms?

 

My crank pulley has no marking on it at all

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by W O T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My crank pulley has no marking on it at all</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's probably just hard to see. Fine lines, 4 in total. 3 close together, and 1 about an inch away. The 1 single one is the tdc mark.

 

Ill chech right now, worked 14 horus but Ill check

BTW- Ive removed the crank pulley many times, would that not throw its position off? Or am i supposed to be taking the crank pulley off and looking at whatever the belt attaches to down at the crank pulley

 

There's a mark on the front of the crankshaft sprocket (for the timing belt), to line up with an arrow on the oil pump. You can only see that when the lower timing cover is off. Your crank pulley looks aftermarket, maybe it just doesn't have any marks???

Removing the crank pulley doesn't throw off it's position. It's held in place with a square key so it can't spin on the crank. You got that, right??

 

Duh, forgot about the key, I guess Ill see what I can do

Quick question

If the timing cover has to be removed, so does the crank pulley then anyways, so I then set timing and put them both back on? hmmmmmm Ill go look at it now, raining

 

My spring is still there, something is definetely wrong though, the block spins like butter on its own but when I get the belt on and try and spin it counter clockwise its just so ******* hard, I spun it until the #1 piston went to about the BDC and then just went back, should I take the head off? I dunno, I need someone to let me know

Also when spinning it counter clockwise, kinda hear a clicking/friction from the oil pump area, right above the tensioner

 

The manual makes it sound like its supposed to be easy breezy to turn over by hand

I just ripped the head off anyways, Ill take a pic for someone to tell me for sure

I also am looking for a definitive answer as to if my block has to be at a certain stroke or if I can just set the #1 piston (closest to crank pulley right) to TDC, same with the head and then the belt.

Im gonna stick the head in a vice right now and try and turn it over

THen hopefully stick it backon before I head back to work for the night

Hope for some good help
THanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by W O T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... but when I get the belt on and try and spin it counter clockwise its just so ******* hard, I spun it until the #1 piston went to about the BDC and then just went back...</TD></TR></TABLE>I don't understand what you mean here...

The camshafts have their own friction to add to the total drag when the belt is installed. But you slobbered oil (or assembly lube) over EVERYTHING, right? Some parts of your troubles sound like the camshaft is real difficult to turn?

 

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOO I ******* did the easiest job and it only took me TOOO LONG!!

I dunno why I never thought of this, but like I was saying there was to much slack and it would jump a tooth or whatever when I spun the crank and it would jump a tooth at the oil pump, so I did everything the exact same as Ive been doing (I knew I was doing it right) and then instead of just tightenening down the tensioner I gave it a good smack with a rubber mallet to increase tension. IT MOVED LIKE 1/3"!!! ******* took out all the slack (might actually be to tight) and I spun the motor over 4 crank revolutions, no binding, fairly easy to turn over, belt does sound like its stretching though, might loosen it a bit.

Such an easy ******* solution, I figured that spring would pull it as tight as possible, thanks for whoever said check the spring, you put the thought it my head

Who knows how tight this belt is supposed to be now?

And yes I sloberred oil all over the block

 

your problem is that you are aligning the marks parallel with the head surface and block--that is for a DX 1.5 sohc motor!! For a d16a6, there should be a mark on the cam gear at about 7:00--this mark lines up with a little nub of plastic which fits behind the cam-pulley--if you line it up the dx way--you will be off more than a tooth in timing. Also, why are you using the screwdriver in spark plug hole method? There should be a mark on the crank pulley--I think its the white one. Which lines up with the cover which MUST be on to find TDC this way.

 

If you got the belt on now--congrats--but DON't start it if you lined it up with the marks parallel to the head surface!! Like I said that is for a 90-91 dx, you said this is a d16a6--civic/crx si motor--redo it--find the mark on the AEM pulley--its about at 7:00--also, don't forget to zero the pulley out--line that mark up with the little plastic nub on the upper plastic piece that fits under the cam pulley. When you set it up, and the cam doesn't appear to be at TDC anymore--don't worry, that is normal--if the head was cut, or the block was line-bored that will happen--that is what the adjustable gear is for, so you can zero it back to TDC AFTER you set/and install the timing belt. If you have anymore questions, just drop me a line--I would be glad to help you out--Jay.

 

Alright well Im glad I came back

I do see a single mark on the cam gear @ the 7 o lock position. does this have to be lined up with the valve cover? Im assuming I would line it up with the marking on the exhaust side of the valve cover right???

I hope you can explain it to me, I have no problem fixing it if you can explain it.

My timing according to the AEM can gear is also 4 degrees retarded, to fix that do I just loosen the 3 bolts and use the center bolt to turn it back to 0?

Also when I set the 7oclock marking to parallel with the valve cover, #1 piston is still at TDC when I throw the belt on right?

Thanks

 

If you infact do have an si head (d16a6) then the mark on the cam gear at 7:00 should be lined up with the plastic nub--its part of the plastic piece bolted to the head--that sits behind the cam gear. When the mark is lined up with that nub, the head is at TDC. And for the bottom end--TDC I believe is the white mark on the crank pulley. When the white mark is lined up with another plastic mark (on the lower timing cover) that is TDC for the bottom end. Line those two up, and bolt everything down. If the head has been shaved at all--it will retard the timing on the cam gear--you can advance it the appropriate number of degrees to correct your timing after you have installed the belt properly.

 

I just noticed!! On your head you are actually MISSING the plastic piece that sits behind the cam gear. If you had it, you would see a nub that sticks out--which you are supposed to line up with the 7:00 mark on the cam gear. You should also check your adjustable cam gear against a stock gear--to see if all the lines line up properly. 99% of the time they do--but you should always check. Otherwise you will NEVER be able to time the car properly!! Before proceeding go to a junkyard and GET THAT PLASTIC PIECE!! or go to http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com they have new for like $12--you need that piece before proceeding!!!!!

 

I have a spare block and head outside, probably with that piece. Totally let me know

Why in all the threads that I have read are u the first person to mention this plastic piece? I dont get it, all the boards and threads Ive made everyone said the 2 cam gear 90* markings. Are you sure your correct?

Thanks

 

I guess I need to know what piece youre talking about to, have a picture?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by W O T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why in all the threads that I have read are u the first person to mention this plastic piece? I dont get it, all the boards and threads Ive made everyone said the 2 cam gear 90* markings. Are you sure your correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tech6023 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go by the little arrow on the inner cover</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by W O T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why in all the threads that I have read are u the first person to mention this plastic piece? I dont get it, all the boards and threads Ive made everyone said the 2 cam gear 90* markings.</TD></TR></TABLE>I didn't realize that. I thought all Hondas used the same marks.

 

Found another rear cam cover dealy and mounted it,set timing by that. Realized my timing covers were old beat up and dirty so I just threw a coat of black paint on them, timing is set though, thanks for all your help guys, I hope that 7 oclcok marking is the right one

Thanks

 

When it's at #1TDC, you should see the camshaft lobes for #1 pointing symmetrically upwards. Like ears coming off 45 degrees left & right.

If that 7-oclock mark was wrong, the cam lobes would be off far enough to notice.