I see a lot of people putting hybrid brake setups on their cars. The benefits should be somewhat obvious. Yet everyone I know with a stock-sized Brembo blank OE replacement and a good high performance track pad can lock up r-compound tires.
So we don't technically need a brake upgrade, right? We are reaching the tire's limitation to slow us down, not the brakes. Larger rotors, calipers and pads won't make the car stop any faster.
Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to upgrade to larger brakes, but I'm not expecting the car to stop any faster. I won't be able to brake later for turns. The Carbotech Panther+s on Brembo blank OE replacement rotors are beyond belief. On the track they haul the car down from triple digit speeds like a parachute time after time with zero fade. There is far more brake than there is tire grip already. I can lock them up with less than 20 lbs of pedal pressure.
The benefits I'd expect with the larger rotors, calipers and pads would be greater resistance to fade (not that I've experienced any yet), greater cooling and longer pad and fluid life. Am I right?

 

More metal means more heat absorption capabilities. So yeah, more fade resistant. If you're not experiencing fade, well, there's probably not a good reason to mod. A little ducting can help out too..

 

Yup, fade resistance is the biggy. On heavier cars especially.

But, I bomb arounf VIR in the RX-7 with stock brake hardware. Never get fade. And usually stop in time for turn-in. Other than the occasional cracked rotor, I have no problems. I also don't have any ducting yet.

 

With larger rotors and multiple piston calipers, it's easier to keep them from locking up. Don't know exactly why, but it is.

Warren - former owner of Alcon B type calipers and 13.1" rotors.

 

A negative aspect of big brakes is the possibility of increased (unsprung) weight. Not to mention the fact that most won't fit under 'stock' diameter wheels. Something to keep in mind for the purpose of class rules.

 

All the points have been covered, but yea. More mass can hold more heat=more stops without fade. If you can go all day braking hard with no fade and boiled fluid, there is no point to upgrade if your locking up tires.

 

If I recall correctly, there is one more consideration to bigger brakes.. Locking up the brakes at lower speeds requires less braking force on the rotor than it does at higher speeds. It's one of those areas where classical friction theory is not quite as useful in predicting behavior, but you can observe this in your car when coming up to a stop sign.. As you approach a stop, you let off on the brake pedal in order to maintain your rate of deceleration. If you keep your foot all the way down at the same place as was appropriate for braking at speed, you end up increasing your deceleration rate dramatically as you near a complete stop.

This extends (although not so dramatically) into higher speed areas as well, if I remember the discussion of this stuff properly.. and so you are able to put that higher clamping force/greater lever arm stuff you get from bigger brakes to your advantage at 120 mph, while at 30 mph, it would just be that much farther into lock-up territory.. (Assuming you don't have a brake bias problem, that is..)

Of course, I might be smoking crack.. I could be confusing some of the experiments I've looked into -- Those of you who actually hit 120+ at the track, do you ever find lockup to be the problem in the 120-100 portion of the decelleration? (Honestly, I don't hit the track.. must resist Go-Fast crack pipe.. I'm autocross only with my current finances) What I watch on Speedvision seems to show lockups at the end of the braking zone primarily, but this could just be from the "Crap! I'm not gonna make it!" response..

just throwing something else out there.. if you find that what I'm saying doesn't match up to experience, let me know!

(of course I agree with the heat/fade issue)

 

larger brakes also MODULATE better. which means you can get closer to the point of locking up without locking up.

 

Aftermarket, high-quality calipers are typically much stiffer than their OE counterpart. This, along with better lines, removes any elasticity from the system, offering a much firmer pedal. If you've ever driven a car (or kart, in my case) with a real braking system you'll appreciate the difference.

Thankfully most of our cars are very light so braking isn't as big an issue as it is for say a mustang or camaro.

 

I find it best to follow the old addage " If it ain't broke don't fix it." If you are experiencing braking problems, (fade, boiling fluid...) upgrade. I have a DX hatch with stock discs and stock rear drums. All I have done for track is steel braided lines and Hawk Blue pads on the front. I can usually out brake most other "stock" cars on track. Besides, all brakes do is slow you down!

 

I agree and also think, if you can lock 'em up, you got enough brakes. My way of thinking about it is that if the car was designed for a 9" rotor, some consideration was taken into account of its weight and the typical speeds it would be hauled down by. So like cvcc130 says, get a real aggressive pad and use the stock sized rotor and/or drum. Otherwise, and someone correct me if I am wrong, you won't heat your pad sufficient enough to get the most effect out of them. Some tracks have way too long of straights to think a 2000 lbs. car would heat up some 13.1" rotors in the braking zone adequate enough to out brake a stock sized rotor with some Hawk Blues or Carbotech XPs IMO.

Then again, I am an idiot and noone should take my advice as if I have a clue on these sorts of things and I am only taking a SWAG. Now how to pronounce Russian writers' names, yeah, listen to me

 

Right on..

pretty much sums it up...