What I Learned at the Track This Weekend
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What I Learned at the Track This Weekend
Whenever I go to the track, particularly if I drive a lot of miles on the track, it seems like I always learn more things about the car, about its handling, about its rate of wear, etc. This past weekend, I drove 310 track miles at Grattan and 51 at GingerMan. Here's what I learned:
1. Pad wear with the Cobalt GT Sport pads is remarkably consistent. This is the third front set I've used up on the ITR, and I've gotten 408, 529, and 495 track miles on each of the sets.
I decided to replace the pads when they had about 3 mm of pad material left on the outboard pads. It turns out they only had about 2 mm of pad material on the inboard pads.
2. Rear pads last almost forever. The stock rear pads lasted me 1317 track miles, I switched to a set of Endless CCX pads which lasted 1297 track miles, and then started another set of CCX rear pads which now have 1730 track miles and aren't done yet.
3. I finally tossed my Autozone front rotors after 1366 track miles, which is pretty impressive (about what I was getting from Stoptech two-piece rotors).
4. It looks like the treadlife I'm getting on the Toyo RA-1 track tires is about the same as I got on the Yokohama A032R track tires. On the Yokos, I usually got 1000-1400 track miles, including front-to-back rotation. I haven't quite used up a set of Toyos yet, but I have 900 track miles on a set and they still have the circumferential tread grooves in them so there's still a ways to go before they get tossed. On this particular set, I've used them only on the front, which would tend to increase the rate of wear per mile, but I had them flipped on the rim before this weekend, which should extend their treadlife by evening out irregularities from one edge of the tread to the other.
5. I'm going to need to replace my Bridgestone RE010 street tires soon. One on each side is down to the treadwear indicator bars on the inside edge of the tread, but not all the way across yet. So I rotated those to the rear, and the front tires still have a little bit of tread all the way across before they're down to the wear bars. I've got over 27,500 miles on them (including a couple of track events) and I think it will probably be around 30,000 miles when I need to toss them.
6. My oil consumption on the track (full synthetic 5W30, currently Pennzoil) is roughly one quart every 250 track miles.
7. Third gear is great for most of the track at both places. You do a lot less shifting in the ITR, with third gear the fastest from 60 to 90 mph, than in the NSX, which has a shift point around 80 mph (where it runs out of second).
8. If you have the spare tire in the well of the hatch, you can stack two 205-50-15 R compound tires horizontally in the left rear corner of the hatch. If you leave your spare tire home because you are bringing seven track tires with you, and you put one of the 205/50-15 R compound tires in the well of the hatch, you can't stack two more in that corner and still close the hatch, but you can still stack two stock 195/55-15 tires there.
Hope this information is useful to others...
1. Pad wear with the Cobalt GT Sport pads is remarkably consistent. This is the third front set I've used up on the ITR, and I've gotten 408, 529, and 495 track miles on each of the sets.
I decided to replace the pads when they had about 3 mm of pad material left on the outboard pads. It turns out they only had about 2 mm of pad material on the inboard pads.
2. Rear pads last almost forever. The stock rear pads lasted me 1317 track miles, I switched to a set of Endless CCX pads which lasted 1297 track miles, and then started another set of CCX rear pads which now have 1730 track miles and aren't done yet.
3. I finally tossed my Autozone front rotors after 1366 track miles, which is pretty impressive (about what I was getting from Stoptech two-piece rotors).
4. It looks like the treadlife I'm getting on the Toyo RA-1 track tires is about the same as I got on the Yokohama A032R track tires. On the Yokos, I usually got 1000-1400 track miles, including front-to-back rotation. I haven't quite used up a set of Toyos yet, but I have 900 track miles on a set and they still have the circumferential tread grooves in them so there's still a ways to go before they get tossed. On this particular set, I've used them only on the front, which would tend to increase the rate of wear per mile, but I had them flipped on the rim before this weekend, which should extend their treadlife by evening out irregularities from one edge of the tread to the other.
5. I'm going to need to replace my Bridgestone RE010 street tires soon. One on each side is down to the treadwear indicator bars on the inside edge of the tread, but not all the way across yet. So I rotated those to the rear, and the front tires still have a little bit of tread all the way across before they're down to the wear bars. I've got over 27,500 miles on them (including a couple of track events) and I think it will probably be around 30,000 miles when I need to toss them.
6. My oil consumption on the track (full synthetic 5W30, currently Pennzoil) is roughly one quart every 250 track miles.
7. Third gear is great for most of the track at both places. You do a lot less shifting in the ITR, with third gear the fastest from 60 to 90 mph, than in the NSX, which has a shift point around 80 mph (where it runs out of second).
8. If you have the spare tire in the well of the hatch, you can stack two 205-50-15 R compound tires horizontally in the left rear corner of the hatch. If you leave your spare tire home because you are bringing seven track tires with you, and you put one of the 205/50-15 R compound tires in the well of the hatch, you can't stack two more in that corner and still close the hatch, but you can still stack two stock 195/55-15 tires there.
Hope this information is useful to others...
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Re: (Dave_B)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave_B »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also that's a lot of miles out of a set of RE010's. How did you accomplish that.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ken is not one of us young guys, so he drives like grandpa... almost is one or IS?
Ken is not one of us young guys, so he drives like grandpa... almost is one or IS?
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From: Czech
Re: (Dave_B)
Great info, as usual! 
I am assuming buing RE010 next season, but I don't change tires on track events, so my RE010 will see also tracks. What do you say about RE010 on a track? Do they last a little?
I am assuming buing RE010 next season, but I don't change tires on track events, so my RE010 will see also tracks. What do you say about RE010 on a track? Do they last a little?
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Re: (petrv)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave_B »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that's a lot of miles out of a set of RE010's. How did you accomplish that.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nothing complicated. Watch the pressures (I keep them at the recommended 35F/33R) and rotate them front-to-back to even out the wear, so you won't have to replace any until all four are shot (I always put the ones with more tread in the front).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am assuming buing RE010 next season, but I don't change tires on track events, so my RE010 will see also tracks. What do you say about RE010 on a track? Do they last a little?</TD></TR></TABLE>
They should be fine. You may get a little bit of chunking (tiny chunks missing from the edges of the tread) but not so much that it affects performance. I don't think that occasional track use will affect the treadlife all that much, unless you are using your car mostly for track events and don't do a lot of daily driving.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken is not one of us young guys, so he drives like grandpa... almost is one or IS?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am not a grandpa; I don't even play one on television. But I do most of my hard driving on my R compound tires. I have over 4,300 actual track miles on my R!
Nothing complicated. Watch the pressures (I keep them at the recommended 35F/33R) and rotate them front-to-back to even out the wear, so you won't have to replace any until all four are shot (I always put the ones with more tread in the front).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am assuming buing RE010 next season, but I don't change tires on track events, so my RE010 will see also tracks. What do you say about RE010 on a track? Do they last a little?</TD></TR></TABLE>
They should be fine. You may get a little bit of chunking (tiny chunks missing from the edges of the tread) but not so much that it affects performance. I don't think that occasional track use will affect the treadlife all that much, unless you are using your car mostly for track events and don't do a lot of daily driving.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bbasso »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken is not one of us young guys, so he drives like grandpa... almost is one or IS?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am not a grandpa; I don't even play one on television. But I do most of my hard driving on my R compound tires. I have over 4,300 actual track miles on my R!
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Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (Cosworth)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cosworth »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good info, Ken.
You should start a blog!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And a podcast!
You should start a blog!
</TD></TR></TABLE>And a podcast!
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From: not walker111 do a search hoes
Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (The Kernel)
Good info! Tonight I'm winning the lottery so I'll be having alot more track time 
Hell I might just rent a track out for H-T.
Hell I might just rent a track out for H-T.
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From: Jasma
Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. Pad wear with the Cobalt GT Sport pads is remarkably consistent. This is the third front set I've used up on the ITR, and I've gotten 408, 529, and 495 track miles on each of the sets.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
All on the same track? Some tracks are harder on brakes than others, I would never judge pad life by their milage.
If you don't fill up the MC reserviour after putting new pads in the fluid will stay in the calipers as pads get worn out and eventually the low fluid level light will let you know when the pads need replacement. At least that's what it's designed to do, I have never done that personally.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
All on the same track? Some tracks are harder on brakes than others, I would never judge pad life by their milage.
If you don't fill up the MC reserviour after putting new pads in the fluid will stay in the calipers as pads get worn out and eventually the low fluid level light will let you know when the pads need replacement. At least that's what it's designed to do, I have never done that personally.
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Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All on the same track? Some tracks are harder on brakes than others, I would never judge pad life by their milage.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, not all on the same track. I drive a variety of tracks; there are five tracks that I drive on every year, and then I sometimes add a new track or two each year (e.g. Expo 4 was my first time at BeaveRun). There's no single track that I drive that is particularly hard or particularly easy on brakes.
I'm not "judging" pad life by the mileage; I'm simply observing the mileage that I get from the pads. I like to replace the pads when they get down to about 3 mm or so. (While you can go lower than that - I think the service manual specifies 1.6 mm as the minimum spec - the extra pad material holds up better against the heat effects of the track, and it's best not to let it get too thin.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you don't fill up the MC reserviour after putting new pads in the fluid will stay in the calipers as pads get worn out and eventually the low fluid level light will let you know when the pads need replacement. At least that's what it's designed to do, I have never done that personally.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've never seen a warning light come on when the pads get worn down.
With the stock brakes, the primary design mechanism to let you know that the pads need replacement is the metal "squeaker" tab on the end of the brake pads (which the GT Sport pads also have, although many other aftermarket pads don't).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken, can I ask why you choose the GT Sports up front rather than something like the Spec VR?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because I don't like to change my pads before and after track events, and since this is also my daily driver, I don't want to live with the downsides of using track pads on the street (e.g. squealing and the need for warmup to be effective).
No, not all on the same track. I drive a variety of tracks; there are five tracks that I drive on every year, and then I sometimes add a new track or two each year (e.g. Expo 4 was my first time at BeaveRun). There's no single track that I drive that is particularly hard or particularly easy on brakes.
I'm not "judging" pad life by the mileage; I'm simply observing the mileage that I get from the pads. I like to replace the pads when they get down to about 3 mm or so. (While you can go lower than that - I think the service manual specifies 1.6 mm as the minimum spec - the extra pad material holds up better against the heat effects of the track, and it's best not to let it get too thin.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you don't fill up the MC reserviour after putting new pads in the fluid will stay in the calipers as pads get worn out and eventually the low fluid level light will let you know when the pads need replacement. At least that's what it's designed to do, I have never done that personally.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've never seen a warning light come on when the pads get worn down.
With the stock brakes, the primary design mechanism to let you know that the pads need replacement is the metal "squeaker" tab on the end of the brake pads (which the GT Sport pads also have, although many other aftermarket pads don't).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ken, can I ask why you choose the GT Sports up front rather than something like the Spec VR?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because I don't like to change my pads before and after track events, and since this is also my daily driver, I don't want to live with the downsides of using track pads on the street (e.g. squealing and the need for warmup to be effective).
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From: Jasma
Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think the service manual specifies 1.6 mm as the minimum spec - the extra pad material holds up better against the heat effects of the track, and it's best not to let it get too thin.)</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you're going beyond what the manual recommends?
I agree, the thinner the pad the more heat will go into the backing plate and consequently the fluid, and the easier it will be to boil the fluid. The thinner pad will also run hotter which will excersurbate the issue.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've never seen a warning light come on when the pads get worn down.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It will only work if you don't add fluid after the pads are installed. I've always filled up as the fluid level dropped with pad wear so usually I didn't see it either.
I think the service manual specifies 1.6 mm as the minimum spec - the extra pad material holds up better against the heat effects of the track, and it's best not to let it get too thin.)</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you're going beyond what the manual recommends?
I agree, the thinner the pad the more heat will go into the backing plate and consequently the fluid, and the easier it will be to boil the fluid. The thinner pad will also run hotter which will excersurbate the issue.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've never seen a warning light come on when the pads get worn down.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It will only work if you don't add fluid after the pads are installed. I've always filled up as the fluid level dropped with pad wear so usually I didn't see it either.
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Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">While you can go lower than that - I think the service manual specifies 1.6 mm as the minimum spec - the extra pad material holds up better against the heat effects of the track, and it's best not to let it get too thin.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just wanted to point out that Andie recommended no less than 3mm on his pads when I inquired a while back.
Just wanted to point out that Andie recommended no less than 3mm on his pads when I inquired a while back.
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Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (El Pollo Diablo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've never seen a warning light come on when the pads get worn down.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It will only work if you don't add fluid after the pads are installed. I've always filled up as the fluid level dropped with pad wear so usually I didn't see it either.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I should have added that I don't add fluid after installing pads, or as pads wear (as long as the fluid is between the MIN and MAX lines, which it always has been).
However, I also flush my fluid every spring, which can change the level of the fluid.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It will only work if you don't add fluid after the pads are installed. I've always filled up as the fluid level dropped with pad wear so usually I didn't see it either.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I should have added that I don't add fluid after installing pads, or as pads wear (as long as the fluid is between the MIN and MAX lines, which it always has been).
However, I also flush my fluid every spring, which can change the level of the fluid.
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From: Jasma
Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
(as long as the fluid is between the MIN and MAX lines, which it always has been).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It will most likely go below min level if the pads are below their recommended thickness, which will make the light go off.
Regardless, I don't think it's that usefull for track use as the fluid will move enough with g-forces to expose the contacts prematurely.
(as long as the fluid is between the MIN and MAX lines, which it always has been).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It will most likely go below min level if the pads are below their recommended thickness, which will make the light go off.
Regardless, I don't think it's that usefull for track use as the fluid will move enough with g-forces to expose the contacts prematurely.
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From: Warning, gRand Return imminent,, NY, USA
Re: (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I have over 4,300 actual track miles on my R!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wish
I guess I can wait 'til retirement to track my R like you
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wish
I guess I can wait 'til retirement to track my R like you
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From: Nor Cal, CA, USA
Re: (Opie)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Opie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I wish
I guess I can wait 'til retirement to track my R like you
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I cant wait till i make CFO so I can take time to track my R instead of playing golf ....lol
I wish
I guess I can wait 'til retirement to track my R like you
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I cant wait till i make CFO so I can take time to track my R instead of playing golf
....lol
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Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This past weekend, I drove 310 track miles at Grattan and 51 at GingerMan. Here's what I learned:
1. Pad wear with the Cobalt GT Sport pads is remarkably consistent.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You had me thinking the ads had returned for a second there.
1. Pad wear with the Cobalt GT Sport pads is remarkably consistent.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You had me thinking the ads had returned for a second there.
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From: seatown, but canadian, eh
Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">8. If you have the spare tire in the well of the hatch, you can stack two 205-50-15 R compound tires horizontally in the left rear corner of the hatch. If you leave your spare tire home because you are bringing seven track tires with you, and you put one of the 205/50-15 R compound tires in the well of the hatch, you can't stack two more in that corner and still close the hatch, but you can still stack two stock 195/55-15 tires there.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was able to fit 2 full sets of tires in that size in my car. one wheel + tire wedged behind each seat and the rest in the back of the hatch, with my big container of track stuff and my spare in there to boot, plus various things like jacks, stands and tq wrenches. hatch powa
another interesting figure to calculate might also be average fuel consumption over the course of the weekend. i've never thought to even record the number of miles accumulated, but given that maybe i'd start bringing a can of fuel along with me
great tips and numbers thank-you!
I was able to fit 2 full sets of tires in that size in my car. one wheel + tire wedged behind each seat and the rest in the back of the hatch, with my big container of track stuff and my spare in there to boot, plus various things like jacks, stands and tq wrenches. hatch powa
another interesting figure to calculate might also be average fuel consumption over the course of the weekend. i've never thought to even record the number of miles accumulated, but given that maybe i'd start bringing a can of fuel along with me
great tips and numbers
thank-you!
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Re: What I Learned at the Track This Weekend (penpen)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by penpen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was able to fit 2 full sets of tires in that size in my car. one wheel + tire wedged behind each seat and the rest in the back of the hatch, with my big container of track stuff and my spare in there to boot, plus various things like jacks, stands and tq wrenches. hatch powa </TD></TR></TABLE>
I've found you can actually fit 3 full sets and then some.
2 in the left rear corner of the hatch, horizontally.
4 across between the shock towers, vertically, same orientation as the ones on the car.
4 more in front of those, vertically, parallel to the seat backs.
2 on the passenger seat.
1 in the spare tire well (either a spare or a full size one if you're stacking 195's over it).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by penpen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">another interesting figure to calculate might also be average fuel consumption over the course of the weekend.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I get ~9-10 mpg on the track, sometimes even less. I need to fill up after about 100 track miles.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I've found you can actually fit 3 full sets and then some.
2 in the left rear corner of the hatch, horizontally.
4 across between the shock towers, vertically, same orientation as the ones on the car.
4 more in front of those, vertically, parallel to the seat backs.
2 on the passenger seat.
1 in the spare tire well (either a spare or a full size one if you're stacking 195's over it).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by penpen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">another interesting figure to calculate might also be average fuel consumption over the course of the weekend.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I get ~9-10 mpg on the track, sometimes even less. I need to fill up after about 100 track miles.