Just a quick question.

Will I be over cammed with a set of Toda Spec B cams (with a good valvetrain) running stock compression.

I know I wont be getting the optimal power for the time being but will it be off enough to the point where its hurting me?

If anybody knows what is the ideal CR for these cams?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just a quick question.

Will I be over cammed with a set of Toda Spec B cams (with a good valvetrain) running stock compression.

I know I wont be getting the optimal power for the time being but will it be off enough to the point where its hurting me?

If anybody knows what is the ideal CR for these cams?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't know about toda B's, but I know a guy who ran skunk 2 stage 2s with stock compression.Even though I told him not to he still did it. We barely made the same horsepower as with only I/H/E after a lot of tuning and it lost a lot of torque. Had to set VTEC at 7k and so on..
So in other words..Don't do it I'm pretty sure Toda B's need almost as much compression as the skunk2 stage 2s

 

Thanks, thats the answer i was dreading!!!

What compression do you recommend running with this set up?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just a quick question.

Will I be over cammed with a set of Toda Spec B cams (with a good valvetrain) running stock compression.

I know I wont be getting the optimal power for the time being but will it be off enough to the point where its hurting me?

If anybody knows what is the ideal CR for these cams?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've seen a Type R with Toda Valve Train and Toda Spec B's, RC 310cc injectors using Stage 3 Hondata to tune, and after extensive tuning made 203WHP

Every reply is not neccessarily going to be true in your case.
This doesn't pertain to a GSR but you get the picture.

 

Well i had plans on using AEM EMS, its just that I didnt want build up the bottom end just yet.

The only other thing i can think of to raise compression without really touching the bottom end is a single layer head gasket, but i highly doubt that it is any where near the bump in compression im going to need.

Still if any one has experience or advice please chip in!

Plus R's start out with higher compression!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks, thats the answer i was dreading!!!

What compression do you recommend running with this set up?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have Skunk 2 Stage 2s, which are pretty much a copy grind of the Toda B cams. I was told by my builder and tuner both that you need at LEAST 11:1. I upped my CR to 11.3:1 and the cams love it. Siting at 190WHP, the only thing holding me back from hitting 200WHP is the stock B16A2 intae mani and throttle body Im still running.


Modified by JoeB18-R at 1:51 AM 9/1/2005

 

thanks for the input

 

sorry buddy but skunk2 stage 2 are copied from jun 3 profile.....Skunk2 pro 1 are more like toda b-c cam....

 

thought the same thing because I think the Toda's are more aggressive then the Sk2 St2.

which only makes things worse for me !!!!!!

 

i did a gsr for a friend using the toda B's and valve spring..plus CTR piston .25 oversize.it ran untuned.i will dyno it sometime next week as i am away from home. but anyway,i could felt the tq at low end..

 

Everybody says undercamed or overcamed these days...Altought your compression is not in the ideal"target" of this kind of cam you will see a gain for sure...Just upgrade your gsr from this cam set..

 

you can up the compression with flat faced valves from supertech or omnipower, as well as use a 1-2 piece headgasket.

together this should give you about a .5-.7 increase in compression without touching the bottom end. You can also tune your cam gears to reduce the overlap, thereby increasing the cylinder pressure as much as possible. The key is to get as much mixture into the chamber and keep it there.

if you do not want to mill the head or replace pistons, that is about the most you can do. i suggest with toda B's to start with at least 11.0:1. 12.0:1 is even better. with higher compression, making power will be much easier.

 

i'm running a stage 2 cam from peak performance/dynamic autosports. their stage 2 is competes against the toda B's and skunk stage 2's.
i'm running 11.5 compession...with the stage 2 and the motor loves it.
i'm sitting on 206 whp
i'd say....some flat valves, a mugen/spoon headgasket and you'll be in the sweet zone.

 

Info from Toda themselves in japan is that if you want to make 100% use of the cam then compression 12:1 and up will do it. Anything less and you won't making full use of the cam.

Yes we all seen dyno numbers, but peak whp and tq #'s don't mean anything unless you are competing in a dyno war event. The most important is the hp and tq curve.

 

did you say power curve?



11.2:1 w/ skunk stage 2s

 

I always try to find out what experienced people say to avoid misinformation: http://m24x.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=3098

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DEMNTD1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Info from Toda themselves in japan is that if you want to make 100% use of the cam then compression 12:1 and up will do it. Anything less and you won't making full use of the cam.

Yes we all seen dyno numbers, but peak whp and tq #'s don't mean anything unless you are competing in a dyno war event. The most important is the hp and tq curve.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. People are focusing to much on peak numbers.

And I guess Toda ought to know what's best for their own cams

 

^^ Damn JoeB18-R what's up with the dip?

My opinion is that the Toda B's will give you a gain, but it won't be nearly as good of a gain as one you'd get from B's + upped compression. B's on stock GS-R compression means that you might have to rev pretty high to see anything significant over something like spec A's or Skunk2 Stage 1's. That and, as someone already mentioned, you'll probably have a narrow powerband. If you're planning for good, wider power curve on a stock GS-R block, you might want to go with a less aggressive cam than B's. Dig up Neo1z's NA setup... I think he was pretty close to 200 whp on a stock block GS-R.

 

b's are much better than stock gsr cams. even with your compression.

why not try it and see?

i've run a's, b's, and c's and have loved them all.

jun 3's are also nicey.

 

Thanks for all the info. Looks like i might have to pass up the B's and and search around for something a little milder.

This is a daily driver and i'd like the power to be there in the low to mid range as well as up top so i might hold off on these types of cams until i build the bottom and get that compression into the 12's.

The research continues!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alfaaay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^ Damn JoeB18-R what's up with the dip?

My opinion is that the Toda B's will give you a gain, but it won't be nearly as good of a gain as one you'd get from B's + upped compression. B's on stock GS-R compression means that you might have to rev pretty high to see anything significant over something like spec A's or Skunk2 Stage 1's. That and, as someone already mentioned, you'll probably have a narrow powerband. If you're planning for good, wider power curve on a stock GS-R block, you might want to go with a less aggressive cam than B's. Dig up Neo1z's NA setup... I think he was pretty close to 200 whp on a stock block GS-R.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the VTEC x-over was set too far up. as you can see moving it back some fixed that.

 

stock jdm gsr
toda b
jdm itr 4-1 header
skunk 2 IM
itr tb
hondata

how about that tq curve, or lack of *the least tq it makes on the graph is 125*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for all the info. Looks like i might have to pass up the B's and and search around for something a little milder.

This is a daily driver and i'd like the power to be there in the low to mid range as well as up top so i might hold off on these types of cams until i build the bottom and get that compression into the 12's.

The research continues!</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you've got the money, I'd say you've got the right idea. How long after installing the cams were you planning on working on the block?

not sure if this helps, but here's a link to my graph on Toda A's and a really really bad exhaust setup (it makes a huge difference). If you notice, I don't have a lot of peak whp, but a pretty nice powerband, which makes the car nice to drive in any situation, and keeps the local ITR's on their toes ...my 1/4 times still need work though.
... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1148105

Edit - Nice graph Casey What compression do stock JDM GS-R's have btw?

 

I had a GSR that I sold a few months ago with stock intake manifold and stock compression. I was running RC 310 injectors and the car made 177whp and 129wtq
I was tuned on hondata as well. Skunk 2 stage 2s are bigger then the Bs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Casey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock jdm gsr
toda b
jdm itr 4-1 header
skunk 2 IM
itr tb
hondata</TD></TR></TABLE>


But a JDM GSR is 10.6 compression, so what's the use of that comparison ?