H1 Setups
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From: 13.9 at 101.76mph, 2420lbs, FL, USA
H1 Setups
I wanted to see if any of you guys have heard of any running an h22 swapped car in H1. I know there are some preludes i.e. Corey that are running them (obviously) but all I ever see are type-r's and the hondachallenge website doesn't seem to be up to date on their driver's profiles. It seems like a much cheaper and more powerful options than people give it credit for. Most jdm's h22's are easy 200whp motors with simple boltons. Other than their slight weight disadvantage I don't see why people would run them (cost and replacement price vs. power).
NASA is bringing the series to the Florida region soon and I think I may give it a shot after a year or two. I don't plan on being uber competitive, but I'd like to take her out and see what is going on. I have a feeling the first two years are going to be pretty low attendance on honda challenge series cars.
NASA is bringing the series to the Florida region soon and I think I may give it a shot after a year or two. I don't plan on being uber competitive, but I'd like to take her out and see what is going on. I have a feeling the first two years are going to be pretty low attendance on honda challenge series cars.
Re: H1 Setups (DarkKnight1)
well the ease of swapping can be an issue... legal aftermarket support... few proven set ups on the motor... trannies... motor weight and the weight penalty (just a difference really, not a big deal i dont think)
but i'm an advocate of more H22 powered cars... there are just some minor issues to work around
but i'm an advocate of more H22 powered cars... there are just some minor issues to work around
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From: Orange County, CA
Re: H1 Setups (MMsportsRexSi)
I've never seen one on a road race course. It's a hell of a lot of engine for the money, though. I had HASport's H22/CRX in my driveway for a few days. Never did toss it into a corner very hard (not my car after all), but man did it have some torque...
The weight penalty might be well justified for the torque benefit. Even the single cam F-series engines (from the Accords) have buckets of low end grunt. And those things are damned near free.
What chassis are you thinking about putting it in?
The weight penalty might be well justified for the torque benefit. Even the single cam F-series engines (from the Accords) have buckets of low end grunt. And those things are damned near free.
What chassis are you thinking about putting it in?
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From: 13.9 at 101.76mph, 2420lbs, FL, USA
Re: H1 Setups (thawley)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thawley »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What chassis are you thinking about putting it in?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's going in a 92 VX hatch. Probably weigh in around 2100-2200lbs. I don't know, it just seemed to be to be a big vacuum where there is a huge oppurtunity. A full long block is only in the neighboorhood of $1,200. Not pennies, but certainly not type-R territory. And more likely then not you'll end up with a stronger motor that has an earlier powerband.
Gearing is a slight disadvantage as well, but with the extra tq it's not a big factor. Well, I guess I'll get to find out soon enough if I'm the first entering it.
What chassis are you thinking about putting it in?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's going in a 92 VX hatch. Probably weigh in around 2100-2200lbs. I don't know, it just seemed to be to be a big vacuum where there is a huge oppurtunity. A full long block is only in the neighboorhood of $1,200. Not pennies, but certainly not type-R territory. And more likely then not you'll end up with a stronger motor that has an earlier powerband.
Gearing is a slight disadvantage as well, but with the extra tq it's not a big factor. Well, I guess I'll get to find out soon enough if I'm the first entering it.
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Re: H1 Setups (DarkKnight1)
You can put in a 4.7 FD gear and the gearing will not be a disadvantage at all. However that's more $$. Also H22's are open diff, so your going to need a LSD, a type R tranny will come with one.
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Re: H1 Setups (577HondaPrelude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can put in a 4.7 FD gear and the gearing will not be a disadvantage at all. However that's more $$. Also H22's are open diff, so your going to need a LSD, a type R tranny will come with one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I actually ended up w/ an m2b4, the jdm oem LSD tranny. I don't think I'm going to go the 4.7FD route as costs will be, as always, a consideration. I've considered the H2B tranny, but don't think it'll be in my budget.
I'd rather spend the money on the actual racing. I don't think the first couple of years in florida will be very well attended or competitive, so hopefully this setup will do for now.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I actually ended up w/ an m2b4, the jdm oem LSD tranny. I don't think I'm going to go the 4.7FD route as costs will be, as always, a consideration. I've considered the H2B tranny, but don't think it'll be in my budget.
I'd rather spend the money on the actual racing. I don't think the first couple of years in florida will be very well attended or competitive, so hopefully this setup will do for now.
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Re: H1 Setups (speedracer33)
that really is a big farse, there have been a few documentation of enigne weight, and yes it is heavier then a B its not like 100lbs heavier.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GOTO Racing build a DA with H22 in USTCC. It was quite competitive until it met its demise at SJGP. Speed wise, it is about the same as my K20 powered Civic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and im pretty sure they were able to get this car fairly well balanced
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GOTO Racing build a DA with H22 in USTCC. It was quite competitive until it met its demise at SJGP. Speed wise, it is about the same as my K20 powered Civic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and im pretty sure they were able to get this car fairly well balanced
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Re: H1 Setups (speedracer33)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I always thought the reason you didn't see them was because of the weight balance. Just too much up front....</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope....not the reason....
nope....not the reason....
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Re: H1 Setups (El Pollo Diablo)
I think that all of the above are concerns that get a lot of discussion, but few can address them knowledgeably because so few have actually tried it.
The HASport CRX that was in SCC a few months back was a pretty well thought out swap. I shot the whole installation process for the "hybrid how-to" article, and I thought it was slick. There was no binding in the axles and the geometry was as good as any B-series swap I've seen. There is more weight, but it's not as bad as most people think. Less than 60lbs if I remember right. And most of the weight was down low in the gearbox, not the engine itself.
If I didn't already have a B-series and had to start over, I would go with the biggest bang for the buck in a stock engine. That spells H-series or it's single cam sibling the F-series. But it's a preference thing. I like using torque and fewer gear changes more than the other way around. I know that's not really a VTEC thing to say, but I'm not into the whole high-RPM-thing.
"I'll take cheap engines with big torque for 500, Alex..."
The HASport CRX that was in SCC a few months back was a pretty well thought out swap. I shot the whole installation process for the "hybrid how-to" article, and I thought it was slick. There was no binding in the axles and the geometry was as good as any B-series swap I've seen. There is more weight, but it's not as bad as most people think. Less than 60lbs if I remember right. And most of the weight was down low in the gearbox, not the engine itself.
If I didn't already have a B-series and had to start over, I would go with the biggest bang for the buck in a stock engine. That spells H-series or it's single cam sibling the F-series. But it's a preference thing. I like using torque and fewer gear changes more than the other way around. I know that's not really a VTEC thing to say, but I'm not into the whole high-RPM-thing.
"I'll take cheap engines with big torque for 500, Alex..."
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From: Panorama city, ca, USA
I always said that the H22 is the motor to run H1, People said it was very heavy so the cars that where running had problems under steering. I always said you just have to work with it a little. When I build a HC car I will run an H motor thats for sure.
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From: Lake Mary, Florida
Re: H1 Setups (DarkKnight1)
I use to race solo 1 in Puerto Rico in my civic cx with H22A and is working very well all depending on your suspencion seating i use coilover 450front/350rear wit AGX KyB shock and a progress rear sway bar oem in the front dont wory about the weight
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: H1 Setups (Honda318dx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H22s suck 
Why people don't use them, I really don't know..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Get your chit back on track!
Why people don't use them, I really don't know..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Get your chit back on track!
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From: 13.9 at 101.76mph, 2420lbs, FL, USA
Re: H1 Setups (speedracer33)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I always thought the reason you didn't see them was because of the weight balance. Just too much up front....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thawley has the right idea. The last h-swap I did, even with off brand (although I don't know if HCP still counts as off brand) and a decent 1.5 - 2" drop, the axles lined up nearly perfectly in a 99 civ coupe.
Weight up front is an issue, but not one that can be overcome with a little patience and some knowledge it's not a big deal.
Thawley-- have you thought about doing an h2b setup? You can keep your b-series tranny, axles, mounts, and along with the kit and a slight modification of the h22 block, you can have what would potentially be an amazing combination of the lighter gearbox, lower gearing, well thought out b-series axle placement, and bang for buck motor.
Personally, I could see this becoming a very competitive alternative to a k20a swap.
Thawley has the right idea. The last h-swap I did, even with off brand (although I don't know if HCP still counts as off brand) and a decent 1.5 - 2" drop, the axles lined up nearly perfectly in a 99 civ coupe.
Weight up front is an issue, but not one that can be overcome with a little patience and some knowledge it's not a big deal.
Thawley-- have you thought about doing an h2b setup? You can keep your b-series tranny, axles, mounts, and along with the kit and a slight modification of the h22 block, you can have what would potentially be an amazing combination of the lighter gearbox, lower gearing, well thought out b-series axle placement, and bang for buck motor.
Personally, I could see this becoming a very competitive alternative to a k20a swap.
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Re: H1 Setups (DarkKnight1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DarkKnight1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lower gearing</TD></TR></TABLE>
Whats wrong w/ the 4th gen prelude gearing? I always thought it was pretty good.
lower gearing</TD></TR></TABLE>
Whats wrong w/ the 4th gen prelude gearing? I always thought it was pretty good.
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Re: H1 Setups (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Whats wrong w/ the 4th gen prelude gearing? I always thought it was pretty good.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nothing wrong with it persay, but lower gearing = faster acceleration out of the corners. Second and third gear tend to bit quite a bit longer than b-series. I've seen similar whp number vs. weight drag racing between b18c5's and h22a's and second and third tend to be where the c5 would pull back some ground on the h.
Well to a point, but I guess it would depend on how many times you are shifting to fifth and if you ever run out of gearing (i'm not sure what the b-series trannies top out at in fifth around 7500-8000rpm).
Whats wrong w/ the 4th gen prelude gearing? I always thought it was pretty good.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nothing wrong with it persay, but lower gearing = faster acceleration out of the corners. Second and third gear tend to bit quite a bit longer than b-series. I've seen similar whp number vs. weight drag racing between b18c5's and h22a's and second and third tend to be where the c5 would pull back some ground on the h.
Well to a point, but I guess it would depend on how many times you are shifting to fifth and if you ever run out of gearing (i'm not sure what the b-series trannies top out at in fifth around 7500-8000rpm).
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Re: H1 Setups (DarkKnight1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DarkKnight1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Nothing wrong with it persay, but lower gearing = faster acceleration out of the corners. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think I remember corey saying that he was close to topping out 5th at most tracks. I'm not sure what else you really need.
Nothing wrong with it persay, but lower gearing = faster acceleration out of the corners. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think I remember corey saying that he was close to topping out 5th at most tracks. I'm not sure what else you really need.
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From: Culpeper, VA
Re: H1 Setups (.RJ)
There are MANY different matches of H/F series trannies, the Majority of them do have longer gears. There are a few "diamonds in the rough" though. 4th Gen VTEC tranny, Accord Euro R tranny, and I believe the Type-S JDM tranny are the short ones.
Even In H2 trim at summit, with stock 7500 rev limit, I have tapped out 5th gear on the main straight without any modifications to the gearbox. The so called "b-series is better" thought about trannys is slightly off.. B and H even share the same sycros and hubs on 3-5th gears..
The only reason I would use a B tranny is if I had a car with shiftting rods so I wouldn't have to convert it to cable tranny. Other than that, for H1, just a lower FD if you have one of the "longer" trannies, or change out the gears maybe only 4-5th to 4th gen VTEC ones (M2F4).
Even In H2 trim at summit, with stock 7500 rev limit, I have tapped out 5th gear on the main straight without any modifications to the gearbox. The so called "b-series is better" thought about trannys is slightly off.. B and H even share the same sycros and hubs on 3-5th gears..
The only reason I would use a B tranny is if I had a car with shiftting rods so I wouldn't have to convert it to cable tranny. Other than that, for H1, just a lower FD if you have one of the "longer" trannies, or change out the gears maybe only 4-5th to 4th gen VTEC ones (M2F4).
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Re: H1 Setups (Honda318dx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Even In H2 trim at summit, with stock 7500 rev limit, I have tapped out 5th gear on the main straight without any modifications to the gearbox.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Man, that lude is fast as NUTS coming out of the turns at Summit. My R was no match for that thing through 1 and 5-8. It sucked
Man, that lude is fast as NUTS coming out of the turns at Summit. My R was no match for that thing through 1 and 5-8. It sucked
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Re: H1 Setups (Back in Black)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Back in Black »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Man, that lude is fast as NUTS coming out of the turns at Summit. My R was no match for that thing through 1 and 5-8. It sucked</TD></TR></TABLE>
yea, its got the TQ.. which is nice in the slower corners, but damnit I hate ITRs and S2ks in brake zones! But, I have fixed the problem now (don't hook brake lines up backwards )
Man, that lude is fast as NUTS coming out of the turns at Summit. My R was no match for that thing through 1 and 5-8. It sucked
</TD></TR></TABLE>yea, its got the TQ.. which is nice in the slower corners, but damnit I hate ITRs and S2ks in brake zones! But, I have fixed the problem now (don't hook brake lines up backwards
)
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Re: H1 Setups (Honda318dx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The only reason I would use a B tranny is if I had a car with shiftting rods so I wouldn't have to convert it to cable tranny. Other than that, for H1, just a lower FD if you have one of the "longer" trannies, or change out the gears maybe only 4-5th to 4th gen VTEC ones (M2F4). </TD></TR></TABLE>
Insight from experience. I like it.
The only reason I would use a B tranny is if I had a car with shiftting rods so I wouldn't have to convert it to cable tranny. Other than that, for H1, just a lower FD if you have one of the "longer" trannies, or change out the gears maybe only 4-5th to 4th gen VTEC ones (M2F4).
</TD></TR></TABLE>Insight from experience. I like it.