2006 Civic Suspension
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From: I am Tyson
2006 Civic Suspension
TOV article on the 2006 civic suspension.
http://www.vtec.net/articles/v...96978
im posting it here because perhaps we can have a good discussion on its new design. please keep it focused on the SUSPENSION. there are many other fine topics concerning the car, but its not relevent here.
personally, im impressed. i wasnt impressed with what they did previously. and especially seeing the improvements now, it looks like a really good setup and design. im so happy the rear suspension didnt go torsion beam like the euro civic. although im amazed that they designed two different suspension for the same chassis. however, removing the coil spring from the shock is kinda out of the box thinking and perhaps radical for honda, im still impressed by how it does improve the packaging and still maintain the double wishbone. also the use of aluminum hub is cool too!
Modified by Tyson at 1:45 AM 8/31/2005
http://www.vtec.net/articles/v...96978
im posting it here because perhaps we can have a good discussion on its new design. please keep it focused on the SUSPENSION. there are many other fine topics concerning the car, but its not relevent here.
personally, im impressed. i wasnt impressed with what they did previously. and especially seeing the improvements now, it looks like a really good setup and design. im so happy the rear suspension didnt go torsion beam like the euro civic. although im amazed that they designed two different suspension for the same chassis. however, removing the coil spring from the shock is kinda out of the box thinking and perhaps radical for honda, im still impressed by how it does improve the packaging and still maintain the double wishbone. also the use of aluminum hub is cool too!
Modified by Tyson at 1:45 AM 8/31/2005
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From: Sherman Oaks, CA, United States
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (Tyson)
Struts up front, multi-link functioning as a-arms in the back. Sounds like a BMW, doesn't it? Either way, I think only time will tell how good the changes are or are not.
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From: I am Tyson
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (TunerN00b)
ha, i think its missing something compared to a BMW..... ah, RWD!
yeah, time will tell.
i guess time told honda that the high front steering and rear suspension didnt work very well...
yeah, time will tell.
i guess time told honda that the high front steering and rear suspension didnt work very well...
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From: cali
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (TunerN00b)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Struts up front, multi-link functioning as a-arms in the back. Sounds like a BMW, doesn't it? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I have spent some time around a BMW, and if my memory is decent it looks to, design wise, be right on with the bmw.
"When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion"
Doesn't that mean there is not real camber curve in the suspension movement?
I have spent some time around a BMW, and if my memory is decent it looks to, design wise, be right on with the bmw.
"When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion"
Doesn't that mean there is not real camber curve in the suspension movement?
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From: Norcal
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have spent some time around a BMW, and if my memory is decent it looks to, design wise, be right on with the bmw.
"When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion"
Doesn't that mean there is not real camber curve in the suspension movement?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The tire on the outside of the curve/turn has camber, the inside tire has less? This is how i interpret it, and I see this very thing happen on many circle track cars, like mod GranAm, sprint, and stock cars; their outside (right) tires always seem to have more camber than the inside (left) tire.
I have spent some time around a BMW, and if my memory is decent it looks to, design wise, be right on with the bmw.
"When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion"
Doesn't that mean there is not real camber curve in the suspension movement?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The tire on the outside of the curve/turn has camber, the inside tire has less? This is how i interpret it, and I see this very thing happen on many circle track cars, like mod GranAm, sprint, and stock cars; their outside (right) tires always seem to have more camber than the inside (left) tire.
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From: cali
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (chrisw85)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisw85 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The tire on the outside of the curve/turn has camber, the inside tire has less? This is how i interpret it, and I see this very thing happen on many circle track cars, like mod GranAm, sprint, and stock cars; their outside (right) tires always seem to have more camber than the inside (left) tire.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok after reading what you said and then re-reading what i posted it makes since
The tire on the outside of the curve/turn has camber, the inside tire has less? This is how i interpret it, and I see this very thing happen on many circle track cars, like mod GranAm, sprint, and stock cars; their outside (right) tires always seem to have more camber than the inside (left) tire.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok after reading what you said and then re-reading what i posted it makes since
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From: Norcal
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (slammed_93_hatch)
Yes, it makes sense since also i forgot to say that circle track cars only make left turns. so what i typed would make more sense 
but also, its static camber on the circle track cars, their right has waaaaaaaay more. If this is happening dynamically on the civic, then i dunno if having the outside tire with more camber than the inside is good chassis dynamics.
but also, its static camber on the circle track cars, their right has waaaaaaaay more. If this is happening dynamically on the civic, then i dunno if having the outside tire with more camber than the inside is good chassis dynamics.
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From: SoCal
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have spent some time around a BMW, and if my memory is decent it looks to, design wise, be right on with the bmw.
"When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion"
Doesn't that mean there is not real camber curve in the suspension movement?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've been corrected about this before but I always thought MacPherson strut suspensions had no camber curve, the wheel travels along the angle of the strut, but doesn't change camber. Now that I think more about it, wouldn't it gain more positive camber as the lower control arm travelled upwards past horizontal?
I don't think this is happening dynamically on the new FG Civic as much as it is caused by the "high caster angle" they talk of in the article. Caster will do that to camber when the wheels are turned, ie. cornering. Generally, it will increase negative camber on the outside wheel, and decrease negative camber (up to vertical and even positive camber) on the inside wheel. This is static, throw body lean in there and you can pretty much visualize how they can keep the inside tire closer to vertical when cornering.
I have spent some time around a BMW, and if my memory is decent it looks to, design wise, be right on with the bmw.
"When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion"
Doesn't that mean there is not real camber curve in the suspension movement?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've been corrected about this before but I always thought MacPherson strut suspensions had no camber curve, the wheel travels along the angle of the strut, but doesn't change camber. Now that I think more about it, wouldn't it gain more positive camber as the lower control arm travelled upwards past horizontal?
I don't think this is happening dynamically on the new FG Civic as much as it is caused by the "high caster angle" they talk of in the article. Caster will do that to camber when the wheels are turned, ie. cornering. Generally, it will increase negative camber on the outside wheel, and decrease negative camber (up to vertical and even positive camber) on the inside wheel. This is static, throw body lean in there and you can pretty much visualize how they can keep the inside tire closer to vertical when cornering.
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">removing the coil spring from the shock is kinda out of the box thinking and perhaps radical for honda,
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I noticed this as well. Kinda weird.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I noticed this as well. Kinda weird.
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From: I am Tyson
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (green00EX)
ok, not out of the box thinking since many other companies do this, but radical in that HONDA will do this.
but i think they broke a lot of their rules when they designed the insight. the insight was the first late model honda vehicle to have macpherson front, torsion beam rear.
but i think they broke a lot of their rules when they designed the insight. the insight was the first late model honda vehicle to have macpherson front, torsion beam rear.
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From: Portland, OR
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (Tyson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, not out of the box thinking since many other companies do this, but radical in that HONDA will do this.</TD></TR></TABLE>
unless you mean "out of the box" literally .... as in out of the Scion (aka box) :-p
Like you said, different for honda, not for everyone else. It'll make rear spring changes a snap!
unless you mean "out of the box" literally .... as in out of the Scion (aka box) :-p
Like you said, different for honda, not for everyone else. It'll make rear spring changes a snap!
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From: cali
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (nonsense)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Like you said, different for honda, not for everyone else. It'll make rear spring changes a snap! </TD></TR></TABLE>
no one will offer "coil over" kits for the rear of these cars.
Like you said, different for honda, not for everyone else. It'll make rear spring changes a snap! </TD></TR></TABLE>
no one will offer "coil over" kits for the rear of these cars.
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Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no one will offer "coil over" kits for the rear of these cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>
maybe not "coil over" but TEIN already makes a kit for the Scion that has similar rear sping setup
</TD></TR></TABLE>maybe not "coil over" but TEIN already makes a kit for the Scion that has similar rear sping setup
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From: san antonio, tx, US
u want ur tire to stay perpendicular to the ground plane when cornering thats how u gain the most traction out of ur tire(if its flat). the tire does gain camber u have to think about the body roll. the body rolls but the tire stays perpendicular. just imagine the movement in ur head if u can
by increaing caster the wheel gains more camber as the wheel is turned so this means that the car requires less static camber. that is prob y the from shock is mounted more verticaly compared to the old system. so that means while braking the tire will gain very little camber and while turning it will start gaining more as u turnt he wheels more and more and the body rolls more.
lowering the steering tie rod reduces bumb steer by keeping the rod paralel to the lower control arm.
personaly i think i liked hondas old rear suspension compared to the new one. it just seems so much simpler to have the spring and shock as 1. i cant really imagine how it will affect handling too much as the overal desing, just seems the same as the old suspension.
thats just my opinion and hope i didnt mess up on anything
in my opinion honda hasnt really ever messed up on their suspension, but im still not feeling the new civic look. its just not simple anymore, the way a civic should be
and to the above statement, nissan's 350z i belive have the same type of suspension in the rear
by increaing caster the wheel gains more camber as the wheel is turned so this means that the car requires less static camber. that is prob y the from shock is mounted more verticaly compared to the old system. so that means while braking the tire will gain very little camber and while turning it will start gaining more as u turnt he wheels more and more and the body rolls more.
lowering the steering tie rod reduces bumb steer by keeping the rod paralel to the lower control arm.
personaly i think i liked hondas old rear suspension compared to the new one. it just seems so much simpler to have the spring and shock as 1. i cant really imagine how it will affect handling too much as the overal desing, just seems the same as the old suspension.
thats just my opinion and hope i didnt mess up on anything
in my opinion honda hasnt really ever messed up on their suspension, but im still not feeling the new civic look. its just not simple anymore, the way a civic should be
and to the above statement, nissan's 350z i belive have the same type of suspension in the rear
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From: cali
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (nonsense)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
maybe not "coil over" but TEIN already makes a kit for the Scion that has similar rear sping setup</TD></TR></TABLE>
it was a joke to tyson, who was the first person to inform me that the term "coil-over" applied to stock 90-00 honda and acuras. the term means the coil goes OVER the damper/strut.
that setup shown is similiar to what they do for BMW too
maybe not "coil over" but TEIN already makes a kit for the Scion that has similar rear sping setup</TD></TR></TABLE>
it was a joke to tyson, who was the first person to inform me that the term "coil-over" applied to stock 90-00 honda and acuras. the term means the coil goes OVER the damper/strut.
that setup shown is similiar to what they do for BMW too
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From: Portland, OR
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it was a joke to tyson, who was the first person to inform me that the term "coil-over" applied to stock 90-00 honda and acuras. the term means the coil goes OVER the damper/strut.
that setup shown is similiar to what they do for BMW too</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah I know I was just joking too....
there are quite a few cars like that. Ford Focus is another.
that setup shown is similiar to what they do for BMW too</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah I know I was just joking too....
there are quite a few cars like that. Ford Focus is another.
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From: Fall River Mills, CA, USA
RE>FS: 90-91 Civic 4 door EX KNUCKLES + CALIPERS 10.3" Big Brakes Rotor for CRX
So sorry to come in this way. New to this forum and can't get into the other post about the EX parts.
Definitely want the EX brake parts .. they are clean and saves me much work. am in NORCAL. Also will take one of the 4040 prop valves for when doing the teg rear suspension swap
Definitely want the EX brake parts .. they are clean and saves me much work. am in NORCAL. Also will take one of the 4040 prop valves for when doing the teg rear suspension swap
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Re: RE>FS: 90-91 Civic 4 door EX KNUCKLES + CALIPERS 10.3" Big Brakes Rotor for CRX (ViejoBlanco)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ViejoBlanco »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So sorry to come in this way. New to this forum and can't get into the other post about the EX parts.
Definitely want the EX brake parts .. they are clean and saves me much work. am in NORCAL. Also will take one of the 4040 prop valves for when doing the teg rear suspension swap </TD></TR></TABLE>
What?
Anyways, has anyone driven one of these civics yet?
Definitely want the EX brake parts .. they are clean and saves me much work. am in NORCAL. Also will take one of the 4040 prop valves for when doing the teg rear suspension swap
</TD></TR></TABLE>What?
Anyways, has anyone driven one of these civics yet?
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Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (Tyson)
Looks like the main reason they seperated the coil from the damper was for the "improved lever ratio"? Is there any other reason to do this?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion"</TD></TR></TABLE>
Or is this not acheiveable with a coil-over-damper design?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"When cornering, the inner wheel remains closer to perpendicular (relative to the ground plane) throughout a greater range of travel, which improves tire adhesion"</TD></TR></TABLE>
Or is this not acheiveable with a coil-over-damper design?
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From: I am Tyson
Re: 2006 Civic Suspension (PIC Performance)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like the main reason they seperated the coil from the damper was for the "improved lever ratio"? Is there any other reason to do this?
Or is this not acheiveable with a coil-over-damper design?</TD></TR></TABLE>
sacrifice interior space.
noob is that you??? ah, i should have guessed....
Modified by Tyson at 11:50 AM 10/9/2005
Or is this not acheiveable with a coil-over-damper design?</TD></TR></TABLE>
sacrifice interior space.
noob is that you??? ah, i should have guessed....
Modified by Tyson at 11:50 AM 10/9/2005
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