I am in the market for a new set of coilovers. Currently I'm running Tein coils unfortunately I don't know the model. They were on the car when I bought it 2 years ago. They are ride height adjustable but no dampening adjustability. I find them to be quite bouncy. Firm but bouncy.

I have been looking at the T1R coilovers from http://www.aj-racing.com and also the D2 coilovers offered by a few sponsors.

The D2's come with camber plates, pillow mounts and have adjustable dampening. The price seems quite attractive.

I've ridden in the A&J DC2R with the T1R's are they feel amazing. Great ride quality. Firm yet not bouncy at all. The car feels very planted to the road.

Just looking for some suggestions from peeps that know more than me. I don't want to spend lots of $$$ which is where the D2's come into the picture. I feel the T1R's are a little out of my price range.

Comments and suggestions please. TIA

My car is a daily driver with plans of Auto-X and track days.

Edit: new info at bottom of page 3


Modified by white rocket at 6:30 PM 11/28/2005

 

SPSS3 Konis + GC sleeves

http://redshiftmotorsports.com/suspension.htm

 

T1R UPS^_^

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chinese acrobat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">T1R UPS^_^</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why? Have you used them?

Most of the JDM dampers are junk. Poor adjustment range, too much high speed damping, and cheap adjustmenet mechanisms. The T1R is no different. Also, what if one of your bling bling anodized purple JDM dampers starts to leak or fails - you're up the goddamn creek and if you want to buy new ones you get to wait several months. Koni has a lifetime warranty on their shocks and they are serviced here in the US.

 

I'm getting ready to install these this weekend: Plenty and plenty of information on them on this forum though.




Modified by KOALA YUMMIES at 5:22 PM 8/31/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Most of the JDM dampers are junk. Poor adjustment range, too much high speed damping, and cheap adjustmenet mechanisms. The T1R is no different. Also, what if one of your bling bling anodized purple JDM dampers starts to leak or fails - you're up the goddamn creek and if you want to buy new ones you get to wait several months. Koni has a lifetime warranty on their shocks and they are serviced here in the US.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good point on the servicing. The D2's, however, are serviced in the US. So says the sellers. I haven't heard any negative comments on them and the price seems like a steal; which is actually a bit of a deterant.

The Koni/GC set-up seems to be quite popular. Is the ride stiffness adjustable with that set-up?

I will do some research on the Koni/GC setup.

Thank you so far

 

Konis, at least the 'yellows,' either off the shelf or SPSS race valved, are only one-way rebound adjustable. You can have them modified to be double adjustable, but at the price to do so, I'd personally go for the 3011 series race shocks.

Now, if you are talking Moton and Ohlins dampers, a whole different world (and cost!) than Konis.

So yes, the rec'd setup by RJ is what I'd rec too, but I'd also recommend the GC tophats as well, it will make the ride better because of increased travel. So thats about $1300 for the SPSS/GC with custom spring rates, and about $120 for the tophats, and you'll have a great setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisw85 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> one-way rebound adjustable. You can have them modified to be double adjustable</TD></TR></TABLE>

So are the D2's or T1R's double adjustable? What exactly does "36 way" adjustable mean? Half one way and half the other?

Suspension and suspension tuning is new to me.

Some really good articles on the Koni/GC set up in the archives BTW

 

Why is everybody recomending SPSS Konis. Those are only necissary for a race cars. The "off the shelf" koni Sports can handle any street friendly spring rates you can throw at them. Keep in mind also that SPSS Koni shocks don't come with any warranty. For this reason alone I say stick to regular Koni Sports (lifetime warranty) w/ Ground Control sleeves (lifetime warranty). Single action rebound adjustment is really all you will ever need for a street car (with light track/auto-x duty). Double adjustable shocks (compression & rebound) onlly add a level of complexity that can cause you to pull your hair out....

FYI: Integras don't use camber plates because they have double wishbone suspension. Camber is controled by the upper control arms. Only McPherson strut suspension uses camber plates. That means any D2's you order, won't come with camber adjustments.

 

x-ways of adjustment should refer to the different "ways" in which damping is adjustable; usually divided up into bound and rebound damping, and further divided into high speed and low speed for each of those, for a total of 4-ways of adjustability. I believe both Moton and Penske offer 4-way adjustable dampers at this time. Most of the brands that H-T users will talk about are not at the level of offering these types of adjustments, so when you see a case like this (36-way) it usually means 36 levels of damping in one way of adjustment (rebound).

 

Great!! Thanx for clearing up the camber plate issue. It makes sense now that I think about it. Similar to the Skunk2 camber kit(not that I would choose that one per say)

The Koni Sports are the ones I'm seeing on their site that you can adjust manually from the top of the shock right?

On a side note; because I'm not sure what Teins came with my car, I've heard through some peaople that the off the shelf spring rates are generally 12k front and 8k rear. I don't think it's too stiff at all, it's actually the bouncing that bothers me. That's where I'm hoping better dampening will come into play.


&lt;------still searching through the archives.............man, there are tons of write-ups

 

Cheers for that tid bit of info as well

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So are the D2's or T1R's double adjustable? What exactly does "36 way" adjustable mean? </TD></TR></TABLE>

36 clicks on the adjuster - that doesnt mean much if the total adjustment range isnt helping you The konis dont have clicks on their adjusment, it just turns from full soft to full stiff.

 

D2 and Ksport (which are both "36 way" adjustable) don't use clicks either. I've been told by my vendor and Ksport that this is because they are finishing up developing their electronic control unit (basically like the Tein EDFC)

Chris, I can highly recommend Ksport coilovers to you. I personally run them in my car with ZERO problems after nearly 4000 miles on them. They're very similar to the D2 and are serviced in the US. Check with the guys in my sig, they'll help you out

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Koni Sports are the ones I'm seeing on their site that you can adjust manually from the top of the shock right?

On a side note; because I'm not sure what Teins came with my car, I've heard through some people that the off the shelf spring rates are generally 12k front and 8k rear. I don't think it's too stiff at all, it's actually the bouncing that bothers me. That's where I'm hoping better dampening will come into play.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct, Koni Sports have an external adjuster for "rebound stiffness" at the top of the shock rod (access under your hood & in the trunk). The adjustablility range for these shocks is incredible. It allows you to comfortably control the motion of springs ranging from "stock" rates up to about 550 lbs/in or more (any stiffer and your car will get bouncier). Then you can fine tune the balance of the car by changing the rear stiffness settings.

If you want height adjustment, your only real option is Ground Control sleeves. They are the only company that makes special coil-over sleeves that fit Koni shocks properly. The good thing is that GC coil-over sleeves can be ordered with any spring rate you want. You may also want to invest in a pair of GC extended upper shock mounts for the front of your car (shown in previous picture). They add .75" of shock compression travel (or roughly 1" of wheel compression travel) to help avoid bottoming out your shocks on lowered cars. Best $100 I ever spent...

SPSS Konis are the race version of the regular Koni Sport. They feature shortened bodies (no extended upper mounts necessary), and stiffer valving. They are good for over 1000 lb/in springs, but you would never need those on a street car.

The bouncing your currently experiencing is from a lack of shock stiffness. It seems your Tein shocks cannot control their springs, and that is why it's uncomfortable. If you do like the spring rates, you should convert the numbers to pounds per inch & order those rates in a ground control setup. That's just my advice...

 

Koni makes great dampers. I have both OTS and 3011's on different cars of course. I will also be putting Konis on my DC racecar - probably 2812's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Mac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Koni makes great dampers. I have both OTS and 3011's on different cars of course. I will also be putting Konis on my DC racecar - probably 2812's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

johnny your a MAC

 

All great info so far.

Sergio, I would be interested in the EDFC set up from Ksport. Tuning the suspension electronically is just pimp IMO

94eg! - Thanx again for the info regarding my current suspension and how to 'build' my next set up. What to look for, spring rates, etc.

What would be the main differences between the Koni/GC set up and a full coilover design? Is there one that can accomplish more than the other? Does one restrict me in any way?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What would be the main differences between the Koni/GC set up and a full coilover design? Is there one that can accomplish more than the other? Does one restrict me in any way?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The difference is one has the threaded body welded to the damper and the other doesn't

IMO no, no. (all else being equal).

But Koni/GC is a far superiour product to Ksports, D2, or omni power

 

i hate to beat a dead horse, but it seems like everyone asks questions about coilover comparisons without reading the shock dyno thread stickied at the top of this forum. if you read it, it shows you in a quantified manner how the shocks are valved and behave in comparison to each other. the graphs may be hard to read at first, but believe me, no matter what anyone tells you, if you look for yourself you'll see the major difference that sets konis apart from the others.

 

A lot of people still don't know how to read the graph. Without that knowledge, the dynos are pretty much useless, other than saying that one is different from the other. Which is why I still advise people to do more research other than asking "Whats better, x, y, or z?" Many of the answers people are looking for are already out there, they just need to know what to look for.

 

there's an explanation on how to read the graphs on page 8. in a post by user 'cmbprelude'. the following posts elaborate.

here it is (paraphrased):

compression is how the shock acts when being pressed (when hitting a bump) and rebound is how the shock acts when expanding after hitting the afore-mentioned bump.

In looking at the koni shock dyno, for each level of rebound adjustment it has almost a completely different level of the amount of force the shock pushed with per distance/time.

The line closest to the center line is lowest softest setting. The furthest is the hardest feeling / most firm setting. How soft or hard these are can only be compared to other shocks on the graph but can not be used as a way of telling how firm or soft these shocks will be on the street in your car because there are always different amounts of weight being supported by the shock, i.e.: a heavy car with on the highest setting will feel much softer than a light car on the same firm setting.

How effective the different levels of adjustment are at each low, mid, and high speeds is directly linked to the distance between the lines on the graph.

The compression seemed to stay the nearly the same for every level of adjustment on the konis. It seems to be that the more digressive the line is on the compression side, the less harsh the bumps are no matter what the speed is.

As for the effects of high vs. low speed: the low speed area of the chart is the effective damping when your hitting corners, and basic maneuvering (slow piston speed action). The high speed section is the effective damping when hitting bumps and other nasty things. You want most of your adjustablility in the low speed area because this will have the biggest impact on handling. If your high speed damping becoms too stiff, your tires will lose contact with the road when you hit bumps and rocks...

edits: clarity, spelling lol




Modified by artifex at 8:29 PM 8/31/2005

 

I did read that sticky. It was a little bit difficult to comprehend for a n00b like myself. Even with the explanations.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did read that sticky. It was a little bit difficult to comprehend for a n00b like myself. Even with the explanations.</TD></TR></TABLE>
[burns]ehhxcellent [/burns] sorry i lumped you in with the others.

 

Yeah I think it helps to get the basics down first, like what constitutes rebound, and what constitutes compression. Maybe consider learning how a shock works, how springs work, and how shocks and springs work together, etc etc.