Pic request: CW ITR with Feels rear wing
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From: Bite Me, TX
CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics??
Anyone have a pic of that CW ITR with the Feels wing on it? I remember seeing it a while back and wanted to show my friend how it looked.
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From: Siege Perilous
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (Dr Pooface)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Pooface »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's my car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please, is the front lip a part of an overall aerodynamic package? Does the rear wing and the front lip work together to improve aerodynamics?
I'm asking because I am still having a hard time decyphering a weird email from Mugen that seems to hint that the famous Mugen wing's aerodynamic improvements were only tested on the Mugen JDM nose. I think that's what they're saying, but I'm not sure.
And you can start a big fuss instantly if you hint that a change to the car's rear aerodynamics would logically lead to a change to the front.
I dunno.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please, is the front lip a part of an overall aerodynamic package? Does the rear wing and the front lip work together to improve aerodynamics?
I'm asking because I am still having a hard time decyphering a weird email from Mugen that seems to hint that the famous Mugen wing's aerodynamic improvements were only tested on the Mugen JDM nose. I think that's what they're saying, but I'm not sure.
And you can start a big fuss instantly if you hint that a change to the car's rear aerodynamics would logically lead to a change to the front.
I dunno.
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From: Vancity, b.c, CANADA
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (George Knighton)
The front lip is just a rattle can painted stock piece (got tired of all the cone scuffs).
Going into turn one at Mission (local track) at about 180kph was met with a little tail wag with the stock wing, it could be a little disconcerting at times. With the Feels wing (only change) the wag was gone. This was with 400/600 springs and bilsteins.
Going into turn one at Mission (local track) at about 180kph was met with a little tail wag with the stock wing, it could be a little disconcerting at times. With the Feels wing (only change) the wag was gone. This was with 400/600 springs and bilsteins.
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From: kuidaore
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (Dr Pooface)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Pooface »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Going into turn one at Mission (local track) at about 180kph was met with a little tail wag with the stock wing, it could be a little disconcerting at times. With the Feels wing (only change) the wag was gone. This was with 400/600 springs and bilsteins.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What were your rear alignment settings? And did they change between wing installation?
Going into turn one at Mission (local track) at about 180kph was met with a little tail wag with the stock wing, it could be a little disconcerting at times. With the Feels wing (only change) the wag was gone. This was with 400/600 springs and bilsteins.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What were your rear alignment settings? And did they change between wing installation?
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From: Vancity, b.c, CANADA
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (1GreyTeg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What were your rear alignment settings? And did they change between wing installation?</TD></TR></TABLE>
stock settings, no changes.
stock settings, no changes.
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From: kuidaore
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (Dr Pooface)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Pooface »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
stock settings, no changes.</TD></TR></TABLE>
iirc stock rear settings are toe'd in, and what can contribute to a squirmy rear at high speeds and especially braking into high speed turns. 0 toe actually makes the rear more stable.
I wonder what kind of drag or downforce if any the wing produces.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm thinking along GK's lines, wondering how and what benefits the wings provide.
On the other side, it does look nice on your car though. Dare I say even nicer than the Mugen.
stock settings, no changes.</TD></TR></TABLE>
iirc stock rear settings are toe'd in, and what can contribute to a squirmy rear at high speeds and especially braking into high speed turns. 0 toe actually makes the rear more stable.
I wonder what kind of drag or downforce if any the wing produces.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm thinking along GK's lines, wondering how and what benefits the wings provide.
On the other side, it does look nice on your car though. Dare I say even nicer than the Mugen.
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From: Denver, CO, USA
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (1GreyTeg)
I really like that wing actually (for a track car). I was planning on the Mugen wing this winter, but may have to look into this. Where can I get more info on the Feels wing? What was the price compared to Mugen?
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From: cali
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (1GreyTeg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
iirc stock rear settings are toe'd in, and what can contribute to a squirmy rear at high speeds and especially braking into high speed turns. 0 toe actually makes the rear more stable.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
kinda confusing what you are trying to say, but a toe in rear wont cause the tail wiggle, a toe out rear will.
Most of the time people see this happen under heavy braking, becuase when the rear end droops the alignment goes from zero toe, to toe out.
but with his spring rates i doubt this was his problem. as this is normally only seen in stock sprung cars, or car that have alittle toe out in the rear.
iirc stock rear settings are toe'd in, and what can contribute to a squirmy rear at high speeds and especially braking into high speed turns. 0 toe actually makes the rear more stable.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
kinda confusing what you are trying to say, but a toe in rear wont cause the tail wiggle, a toe out rear will.
Most of the time people see this happen under heavy braking, becuase when the rear end droops the alignment goes from zero toe, to toe out.
but with his spring rates i doubt this was his problem. as this is normally only seen in stock sprung cars, or car that have alittle toe out in the rear.
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From: Siege Perilous
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but with his spring rates i doubt this was his problem. as this is normally only seen in stock sprung cars....</TD></TR></TABLE>
400# springs in the front is nowhere near the strength you would need to keep the nose up under threshold braking in the 120-140 mph range.
but with his spring rates i doubt this was his problem. as this is normally only seen in stock sprung cars....</TD></TR></TABLE>
400# springs in the front is nowhere near the strength you would need to keep the nose up under threshold braking in the 120-140 mph range.
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From: Vancity, b.c, CANADA
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">400# springs in the front is nowhere near the strength you would need to keep the nose up under threshold braking in the 120-140 mph range. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree. Now I run 600/800. Would like to go a bit stiffer but I don't think the shocks could take it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really like that wing actually (for a track car). I was planning on the Mugen wing this winter, but may have to look into this. Where can I get more info on the Feels wing? What was the price compared to Mugen?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The thread starter told me he ha one sitting around in storage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I agree. Now I run 600/800. Would like to go a bit stiffer but I don't think the shocks could take it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flux »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really like that wing actually (for a track car). I was planning on the Mugen wing this winter, but may have to look into this. Where can I get more info on the Feels wing? What was the price compared to Mugen?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The thread starter told me he ha one sitting around in storage.
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From: kuidaore
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
kinda confusing what you are trying to say, but a toe in rear wont cause the tail wiggle, a toe out rear will.
Most of the time people see this happen under heavy braking, becuase when the rear end droops the alignment goes from zero toe, to toe out.
but with his spring rates i doubt this was his problem. as this is normally only seen in stock sprung cars, or car that have alittle toe out in the rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The confusing part is that I was confused. It should have had at least one (?) in there somewhere. Since it was more of a question and me trying to remember the rear stock toe settings.
Upon looking at the Helm's manual again though, I was correct in remembering that the rear toe settings are 1/16th toed in, which while yes would hopefully zero out under high speed braking, I was curious if his settings were the same between having the wing on and not having it. That's all. Which he answered, I was incorrect with the toe in producing squirmy rear end play, which you corrected me as toe out.
I was trying to correlate the reported more buttoned down feel with the wing to the wing itself not to rear alignment settings. As I've already tracked with several odd rear alignment settings and with and without the stock wing that all produced some less than desirable results in high speed braking zones and even trailbraking into corners.
No harm or foul. I think the wing is actually pretty good looking and as I said before if it produces wanted characteristics, is altogether more attractive to me at least
kinda confusing what you are trying to say, but a toe in rear wont cause the tail wiggle, a toe out rear will.
Most of the time people see this happen under heavy braking, becuase when the rear end droops the alignment goes from zero toe, to toe out.
but with his spring rates i doubt this was his problem. as this is normally only seen in stock sprung cars, or car that have alittle toe out in the rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The confusing part is that I was confused. It should have had at least one (?) in there somewhere. Since it was more of a question and me trying to remember the rear stock toe settings.
Upon looking at the Helm's manual again though, I was correct in remembering that the rear toe settings are 1/16th toed in, which while yes would hopefully zero out under high speed braking, I was curious if his settings were the same between having the wing on and not having it. That's all. Which he answered, I was incorrect with the toe in producing squirmy rear end play, which you corrected me as toe out.
I was trying to correlate the reported more buttoned down feel with the wing to the wing itself not to rear alignment settings. As I've already tracked with several odd rear alignment settings and with and without the stock wing that all produced some less than desirable results in high speed braking zones and even trailbraking into corners.
No harm or foul. I think the wing is actually pretty good looking and as I said before if it produces wanted characteristics, is altogether more attractive to me at least
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From: cali
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
400# springs in the front is nowhere near the strength you would need to keep the nose up under threshold braking in the 120-140 mph range.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i Know this but it has been my experance, that even just with 400lbs springs the problem goes away, or is less noticable.
400# springs in the front is nowhere near the strength you would need to keep the nose up under threshold braking in the 120-140 mph range.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i Know this but it has been my experance, that even just with 400lbs springs the problem goes away, or is less noticable.
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From: Siege Perilous
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (slammed_93_hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i Know this but it has been my experance, that even just with 400lbs springs the problem goes away, or is less noticable.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe you, but in my own experience, with 400# springs, going into threshold braking from 135-140 produces a contact patch so huge on the front that if you even THINK about a direction the car's going to shoot off.
i Know this but it has been my experance, that even just with 400lbs springs the problem goes away, or is less noticable.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe you, but in my own experience, with 400# springs, going into threshold braking from 135-140 produces a contact patch so huge on the front that if you even THINK about a direction the car's going to shoot off.
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Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe you, but in my own experience, with 400# springs, going into threshold braking from 135-140 produces a contact patch so huge on the front that if you even THINK about a direction the car's going to shoot off.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
400 in the front is pretty stiff for a set of street tires imo... but yeah, if you switched over to r compounds 400 is lightweight, and will produce a huge nose dive as george says
I believe you, but in my own experience, with 400# springs, going into threshold braking from 135-140 produces a contact patch so huge on the front that if you even THINK about a direction the car's going to shoot off.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
400 in the front is pretty stiff for a set of street tires imo... but yeah, if you switched over to r compounds 400 is lightweight, and will produce a huge nose dive as george says
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (255.255.255.255)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 255.255.255.255 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
400 in the front is pretty stiff for a set of street tires imo...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not really. With 700-800# springs up front, braking becomes much better.
400 in the front is pretty stiff for a set of street tires imo...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not really. With 700-800# springs up front, braking becomes much better.
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From: Atlantis
the wing is more function over form i guess.....
although, if i wanted an ugly wing, i'd go with the mugen.
i really like the stock itr wing, so i've kept it. that little bit of downforce is nicey. (as if i could tell the difference! lol)
but for a functional wing, i think i'd go with something along the lines of mugen gen 1 or cwest.....
although, if i wanted an ugly wing, i'd go with the mugen.
i really like the stock itr wing, so i've kept it. that little bit of downforce is nicey. (as if i could tell the difference! lol)
but for a functional wing, i think i'd go with something along the lines of mugen gen 1 or cwest.....
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From: Denver, CO, USA
Re: CW ITR with Feels rear wing pics?? (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I believe you, but in my own experience, with 400# springs, going into threshold braking from 135-140 produces a contact patch so huge on the front that if you even THINK about a direction the car's going to shoot off.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But isn't that the point of threshold braking? You are using as close to 100% of the tires circle of friction as you can get for deceleration that there is nothing left for a direction change. If you want to make a direction change you need to give up some fo the tire's allotment for braking to spend it on changing direction.
I believe you, but in my own experience, with 400# springs, going into threshold braking from 135-140 produces a contact patch so huge on the front that if you even THINK about a direction the car's going to shoot off.</TD></TR></TABLE>
But isn't that the point of threshold braking? You are using as close to 100% of the tires circle of friction as you can get for deceleration that there is nothing left for a direction change. If you want to make a direction change you need to give up some fo the tire's allotment for braking to spend it on changing direction.