Ok i have a 01 integra gsr with konis. I raced in gs but im moving to sts. Im going to start with springs and a camber kit. A local shop recomended ingalls camber kit from experience so i trust that. Right now im just trying to figure out what the best spring rate would be for konis with GC. The norm seems to be about 350/400. but somone else that ran a competitive integra recomended 700/500. THis seemed pretty high so i was wandering what your experience was with higher spring rates and drivability was. My car is a daily driver but I wouldnt mind a stiffer ride but im not sure how hard 700/500 or similar would be.

I also need a way to change the springs because local shops charge way too much so would this work any idea if that spring compressor would work
http://www.harborfreight.com/c...47890

Thanks
Rockdude14

 

It's very difficult to tell you what too hard is comfort-wise. Some people find that 300 lb/in is unbearable and then there are others who are riding around happily with 600+. A lot of comfort has to do with your shocks and how well they damp the springs you have chosen. Also people seem to be more sensitive to rear stiffness.

As far as rates go, I would think that you would want more rear rate than front. Try 300 front 400 rear for an autocross car. This assumes you haven't changed bars too much.

Also, no need for a camber kit. If you lower the car 1" you will get 1 degree of negative camber. 2" = 2 degrees. You will not want to lower more than 2" and having 2 degrees of camber is exactly what you want for autox.

The best advice I can give you is to go to Chris Shenefield's Red Shift Motorsports site. He is the king of STS Honda tuning and a real nice guy besides.

regards,
alan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You will not want to lower more than 2" and having 2 degrees of camber is exactly what you want for autox.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that is a matter of opinion.

Aside from that, your setup will depend on how you want the car to handle. If you want it loose, run stiffer in the rear.

BTW, if you are running GCs with Konis, you wont need a spring compressor after you get the stock springs off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, no need for a camber kit. If you lower the car 1" you will get 1 degree of negative camber. 2" = 2 degrees. You will not want to lower more than 2" and having 2 degrees of camber is exactly what you want for autox.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I run 380/350 springs, 2" lowered front, 1.5" lowered rear, uncorrected -2.0/-1.4 degrees camber, with 25.4/19mm swaybars. This is a pretty conservative (read: soft and understeery) setup as auto-x setups go, although I have -120lbs off the front of my car and only -50lbs off the rear on auto-x days vs. stock so I think that has something to do with why it feels pretty nice and neutral to me - that and adjusting the Konis to rotate the car more. For me 380/350 is great on the street, although my non-car-freak friends would say differently. I'd try starting with 380/450 GCs (380 is the default front rate that comes with the coilover kit) and go from there. A 22mm rear bar might suit you nicely too.

 

I've read somewhere that Konis aren't compatible with GCs, as far as the G3 Integra is concerned. Is there any truth to this?

 

Not at all, in fact they make a GC kit specifically for Konis and I have it and love it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DSPDA3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've read somewhere that Konis aren't compatible with GCs, as far as the G3 Integra is concerned. Is there any truth to this?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

no. complete and utter bullshit. make sure when you order from GC that you tell them you are using koni's. they'll include the proper adapter. G3 tegs are virtually identical to civics as far as this goes.

as for spring bias, 700/500 would be pretty nice on OTS koni's with a 22mm rear swaybar and the stock 24mm front bar. how do i know? i've run it before and even being 200lbs overweight for the class the car was plenty quick enough and rotated just fine. this whole bit that you need stiff rear springs to get the car to rotate enough is just internet band wagoning.

as far as comfort is concerned, i wouldn't want to go any higher then 500lbs/in in the rear. ride comfort really takes a dive beyond that.

nate

 

i think im gonna start at 400/450

and ill move from there if its not stiff enough
especially since i wont need a spring compressor to change them thats a big plus

this will at least give me a good plus to start once i add the sway bar and strut bar and so on

aso for the havier spring in the back to get it to rotate
ive heard both ways so i guess ill find what works for me

just curius howd you drop 170 from your car?


also somone else who i know ran an integra with 700f/600r
what do you guys think about those
he said they worked great and wernt that uncomfortable but i just cant imagine that isnt painfull to drive


Modified by rockdude14 at 4:19 PM 8/24/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
as for spring bias, 700/500 would be pretty nice on OTS koni's with a 22mm rear swaybar and the stock 24mm front bar. how do i know? i've run it before and even being 200lbs overweight for the class the car was plenty quick enough and rotated just fine. this whole bit that you need stiff rear springs to get the car to rotate enough is just internet band wagoning.
nate</TD></TR></TABLE>

And this was on a short wheelbase civic hatch or a long wheelbase G3 Teg?

 

I think that another reason my car rotates fairly well with 380/350 and 25.4/19mm bars is because Integras have quite a bit more weight in the back than the Civic hatches that people usually run. On some courses I wouldn't mind a touch more oversteer though.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rockdude14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
just curius howd you drop 170 from your car?
Modified by rockdude14 at 4:19 PM 8/24/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
Daily driven I'm -135lbs from a stock LS (~2625lbs stock)...
A/C -44lbs
C/F hood -16lbs
DC header -15lbs
Lightweight battery -13lbs
Sound deadening tar (not done yet) -12lbs
Lightweight flywheel -9.5lbs
Intake resonators and crap -7lbs
Trunk floorboard -5lbs
Cruise control -4.5lbs
Rear wiper/motor -3.5lbs
Exhaust heatshields -3lbs
Metal mystery plate sandwiched in glovebox door -2lbs
S2000 antenna -1.5lbs
Rear brake dust shields -1lb
Rear center brake light -1lb
Strut bars +4lbs
Swaybars +5lbs

That's -129lbs right there daily. For auto-x I take out the rear seats/carpet, spare/jack, and floormats so that's another ~50lbs or so. Notice that - especially for daily driving - most of that weight is taken out of the engine bay area. Also note that I still have all the dash/trim and all safety features like ABS and airbags. Power steering is soon going to be gutted too!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And this was on a short wheelbase civic hatch or a long wheelbase G3 Teg?</TD></TR></TABLE>

ultra long wheelbase civic coupe. roughly 104" wheelbase, just a tick longer then a G3 teg. my hatch has the same wheelbase as the teg.

nate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... The best advice I can give you is to go to Chris Shenefield's Red Shift Motorsports site. He is the king of STS Honda tuning and a real nice guy besides.

regards,
alan</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. I placed my order for suspension from him last week, just got the first package, waiting on the rest. But he definately helped with advice before the sale.

I'm going to run 400/400 on my 00 gsr, see how that handles. I've also got a Comptech rear sway, set to full stiff, to help with rotation. Hopefully it will still be reasonably streetable.

 

when are you installing?

i heard that the comptech bar was illegal in sts

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rockdude14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i heard that the comptech bar was illegal in sts</TD></TR></TABLE>

under what grounds?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rockdude14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when are you installing?

i heard that the comptech bar was illegal in sts</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's totally legal.

And it's the rear bar I'd run, unless you can find the über rare Ground-Control bar....

.RJ didn't you have one of those GC bars?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rockdude14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when are you installing?

i heard that the comptech bar was illegal in sts</TD></TR></TABLE>

Last time I looked, swaybars could be replaced, installed, or removed freely in STS. The Comptech kit comes with a lower tie bar, which should also be legal.

I suppose the question becomes, is the Comptech "tie bar" really a strut bar, or a "non-standard lateral member"?

http://www.comptechusa.com/store/140100.html



14.7 Substitution, addition, or removal of any anti-roll bar(s) is permitted.
Bushing material, method of attachment, and locating points are
unrestricted. Components such as anti-roll bars and strut housings
that serve dual purposes by also functioning as suspension locators
may not be modified in ways that change the suspension geometry
or steering geometry. Non-standard lateral members which connect
between the brackets for the bar are not permitted.

14.8 J. Strut bars are permitted with all types of suspension. Strut bars
may be mounted only transversely across the car from upper right
to upper left suspension mounting point and from lower right to
lower left suspension mounting point. No other configuration is
permitted. Additional holes may be drilled for mounting bolts.
Only bolt-on attachment is permitted. Interior trim panels may be
modified to allow installation of strut bars. Holes or slots may be
no larger than necessary and may serve no other purpose. This
does not permit any modifications to the frame or unibody beyond
the allowed mounting holes.

 

So it's legal both as a bracket for the bar and as a lower suspension tie bar.

As a side note, I DO have a GC 25mm bar. The end links are not in great shape but is otherwise OK. This bar was on a 94 GSR and I went to a lighter rear bar when I changed spring rates. Taking offers, can send pics to interested parties. Thread hijack over.

I ran my GSR with spring rates ranging from 500/400 to 800/700 for 5 years and found it to be OK when combined with properly valved Koni's, the last two years with race seats. The is in the great potholed northeast and I'm 40ish. If you need to deal with snow/ice, run snow tires and no rear bar in the winter. Stiff suspension with big rear bar= snap spins on ice.

 

how was the 700/800

and by properly valved konis do you mean SPSS3 valved konis
or just konis that arnt shot

i do have to deal with snow and ice but not too much
and i have real snow tires
but when you say run no bar do you mean actually no bar
or just all the way soft

 

I had the Koni's revalved by a place on the west coast, True Choice. I think the springs are stiff but not too bad. The only real issue for real driving is that the back WILL jump on sharp bumps. Proper damping can't do much when the suspension moves so little. With the back springs in the 450 range, bumps were not bad at all.

I really mean to totally disconnect the rear bar in the winter. Consider that most ice racers run no bar on either end and often softer than stock springs to help grip on loose surfaces. A rain setup for SP or IT racers will be either softer on the rear bar or simply disconnect it. The high rate rear springs will already give more roll resistance on the rear suspension than stock which can lead to hanging the tail out with little warning on ice and snow. I tried ice racing once with the rear bar attached and went from everything being OK to looking where I just was in about a second. At about 10 degrees I was not about to jack the car up and disconnect it on the frozen lake so I just drove it hanging the tail out sprint car fashion.

 

what length did you get them

ground control doesnt offer 7" about 650
did you go with 6" and if so did you ever have any problems with the coils binding
or 8" if so could you still unwind the gc so you could take the springs off w/o a spring compressor

 

you can get the ride height you want with an 8" spring up to about a 900# spring. above that you want to start looking at a 6" spring. the rear you can use a 6" spring if you're over 500# or so. the only time you would have difficulty changing springs would be if you used a soft spring and a high ride height. or if you had koni put longer droop limiters in your shocks. other then those particular situations, you'll be fine.

nate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.RJ didn't you have one of those GC bars?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup, I didnt like the design as much as the comptech bar. I dont really like a stock fitment swaybar anyways.... I ordered the bits to put together a kit with a 32mm hollow (circle track type) swaybar yesterday

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> 32mm hollow (circle track type) swaybar </TD></TR></TABLE>



Sweet, I want pics of the finished product.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



Sweet, I want pics of the finished product.</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.hrpworld.com/index....oduct

 

for autoX
500f
800r is pretty good on the integra chassis