I will soon be setting up the EG hatch with Koni/GC's for lots of track time. I am doing my research on LCA's and want to know what a better solution is.
I could get factory Integra LCA's and press in new bushings, (Hardened rubber) or I can pickup the Omnipower ones for 108 shipped with hardened bushing already pressed in.
It seems like the cost will come out to just around the same doing both. I don't have a press do the bushings, so I would have to take the LCA to some place and pay em.
Are aftermarket LCA's any good. what if I go off and put a good amount of force on the rear suspesion. Those forged aluminum units wont bend very willingly, will the subframe take the damage before the LCA? DO any of you HC guys use these?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will soon be setting up the EG hatch with Koni/GC's for lots of track time. I am doing my research on LCA's and want to know what a better solution is.
I could get factory Integra LCA's and press in new bushings, (Hardened rubber) or I can pickup the Omnipower ones for 108 shipped with hardened bushing already pressed in.
It seems like the cost will come out to just around the same doing both. I don't have a press do the bushings, so I would have to take the LCA to some place and pay em.
Are aftermarket LCA's any good. what if I go off and put a good amount of force on the rear suspesion. Those forged aluminum units wont bend very willingly, will the subframe take the damage before the LCA? DO any of you HC guys use these?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would use the factory OEM units and press in new bushings. Some (maybe most) of the aftermarket LCA's are poorly (if at all) engineered and there have been some failures. Sure, the red anodized ones look real purdy and all, but for serious track driving, I wouldn't trust my life to them.

 

omni's are silver, i wouldnt put red lcas on my car... Thats the kind of answer i was kinda expecting. thanks forthe insight.

 

You said <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will soon be setting up the EG hatch with Koni/GC's for lots of track time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

After you get some track time, do you plan on entering it into a series? If so which one?

 

well thats a good question.its a good car to do so, but that means I'd have to mod following the rules starting now, or change stuff out later. I want to race for 30 dollar trophies, but not now. A college student can't race, theres not enough money. I run red in DE, but i still dont think i'm nearly fast enough or experienced to be competitive in w2w.

cliff notes: prolly will race, but not for a few years.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">omni's are silver, i wouldnt put red lcas on my car... Thats the kind of answer i was kinda expecting. thanks forthe insight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Based on some well known failures of some other Omni products (shocks), I would stay away from any products made by them. Their LCA's haven't been on the market very long and the test drivers (people who buy their product) haven't had enough time to see how strong they are.

 

If you're not competing until a few years from now, don't worry about class legality. I'd also suggest going with OEM, as they're proven to not fail, ever, and the weight savings you'd get from an aftermarket one wouldn't matter for HPDEs.

 

If you really want some aftermarket LCA's i would get the function 7 pieces. I havent ever seen any one say anything bad about them. They also have a poly bushing system that dosent require a press to change them, And they are covered buy their warrenty. I got that info from emailing them. Their tech guy seemed to know his **** and gave me some good info.

 

I dont think i want poly in the LCA's. i think it binds there doesnt it.
Looks like I'll go with the factory on this one.

 

I use factory arms with Mugen bushings.

 

That's kinda what I was getting at... usually you want to build towards a series, but since you are a couple of years out.... I would still recomend going factory, you could even do something like rear ITR LCA's but then you would have to get ITR shocks, and I think that would bump you to H1 if you ran the Honda Challenge some day.
I would say go factory spec.

In ways I envy your setup, I have just about the same car but I swapped out the engine and everything. Latley (and too late now) I have been thinking, and want a to run factory setup (low hp) so I could learn about momentum. Anyone can take... lets say a viper and throw it into a turn and if you were slow through that corner you just step on the gas and not much speed lost. But with a 95 civic if you don't practice holding your momentum through a corner you will be slow. period. Momentum is everything in a low HP car, the better you understand this, the better driver you will be...

Throw some good pads and fluid in that thing and take it to the track.

Chris, who is seriously thinking about driving around in 4th and 5th gear next track session.

 

I agree with you about slow cars, but this is a cx, and 70 hp is getting to the point where its dangerous since I dunno if i can even get it up to spped. I'll have issues on any uphill straights, and the motor will prolly spin a rod bearing first bowl i attempt. I am thinking of a low hp motor though. Something like a d16z6, or a ZC... maybe build it a bit... I think I'll be ok with 130-150 whp, at least for now. The 944 makes about 300 hp, so I have that to drive if I crave it... I wish I could get the 944 on track as well, but it hasn't been very reliable lately. Hopefully soon.

 

The only bushings that are bad to replace with poly are the trailing arm bushings, the rest of them will not bind.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DavidR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only bushings that are bad to replace with poly are the trailing arm bushings, the rest of them will not bind. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not neccessarily true. Look at the range of motion - its not in a single axis for most of the suspension arms.

 

How far are you moving the arm? most suspensions in a race environment have a very limited range of motion. If you are swinging the hub assembly 12", I think that is way too far.

 

I dont think you could swing it 12" if you wanted to. I'm talking normal range of motion, +/- 2-3" from ride height.

 

The large range of motion only demonstrates what may not be seen, but exists, in the small range of motion the suspension actually sees.

 

My idea is this, however..Can anyone here say that the arms are supposed to move in this fashion? Just because they do, doesn't mean they are supposed to.

 

I drove my CX on the street for about a year, I know exactly what you are talking about. fifth gear, highway at 65, 10% incline, floor it -car slows, downshift to 4th -car still slows but not as much, downshift to 3rd -man you have to rev the **** out of it just to maintain speed going up a little hill. It cost me $0.70 to drive 30 miles but man... that is the slowest motor that came in that car.

I'm still jealous though, now I'm thinking about taking the 88 4 dr DX civic to the track, but that thing feels like it has about 110 HP.

Don't feel that you have to do major preparation to the car before you track it. Just make sure its safe, make sure you'll be able to stop, and have some tires that won't roll over and blow.

Many people, including myself sometimes before I look at it practically, feel that you have to have all these upgrades before you go out...

*maybe I should put some shocks on there.... or maybe I should just get a full race shock spring combo w/coil overs.....

*maybe I should get a intake... and some headers... ya... and a better engine while I'm at it...

Chris -who has dumped about twelve thousand dollars into a car that he hasn't even taken to the track yet

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DavidR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My idea is this, however..Can anyone here say that the arms are supposed to move in this fashion? Just because they do, doesn't mean they are supposed to. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, all arms (i.e. links) move in an arc. Sure, longer links move in larger arcs, but the motion is still an arc. Three dimensional range of motion links such as those found in multi-link suspension systems move in very complex paths that are not planar. This includes the LCA. It moves up and down and forward and aft during it's reactions to road loads. You do not want to restrain a link that doesn't move in a plane by using a bushing, since the bushing will try to restrain the link to motion in a plane. If you use a bushing, you will get a certain amount of binding during the suspension movement. You want to use either a spherical bearing or rubber which allow the non-planar trajectories of the link without binding.

 

I think these bushings flex enough to allow for flex of the LCA, as well as not self destruct.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DavidR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think these bushings flex enough to allow for flex of the LCA, as well as not self destruct.
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Is that a poly bushing ?

 

Yes, that is the poly bushings we have made for our LCAs.

 

You've got to remember that urethane can be found in many hardnesses just like rubber. What it comes down to for manufacturers is to come up with a hardness that is a best compromise of response (harder is better for track only and softer is better for less road noise), life ( a function of the hardness and formulation and evironmental effects), and dealing with the out of plane trajectory of the LCA (softer - for more for/aft motion and can be harder for less for/aft).

For track only and no expense spared, you really can't beat spherical bearings. It offers the best response and provides for a virtually bind-free joint for the suspension to handle it's job. Unfortunatly, for street driven cars the sphericals do increase the cabin noise and there may be some issues with maintenance. It just goes to show that there are few products that have a clear cut advantage for all intended purposes or uses of the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Mac &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You've got to remember that urethane can be found in many hardnesses just like rubber. What it comes down to for manufacturers is to come up with a hardness that is a best compromise of response (harder is better for track only and softer is better for less road noise), life ( a function of the hardness and formulation and evironmental effects), and dealing with the out of plane trajectory of the LCA (softer - for more for/aft motion and can be harder for less for/aft).

For track only and no expense spared, you really can't beat spherical bearings. It offers the best response and provides for a virtually bind-free joint for the suspension to handle it's job. Unfortunatly, for street driven cars the sphericals do increase the cabin noise and there may be some issues with maintenance. It just goes to show that there are few products that have a clear cut advantage for all intended purposes or uses of the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You hit the nail on the head! For no expense spared, spherical bearings. However, our LCAs (with our spec poly bushings) have been used in many forms of racing with temendous success, as well as many miles on the street.