https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1343383

Call me a freak, but I feel it's a VERY bad thing when threads with questions about safety of autocross events are locked.

What do we have to hide?

Sheesh, if I had a lot that I was considering renting out to some autocrossers, and I found out that they censor talk of mishaps, that would make it pretty easy for me to decide what to do.

Ah well, it's not my board/forum, and my opinions aren't always welcome here...

 

Its a low risk sport, but risk is there. I felt RJ's response was good enough in the sense it explained everything. In our region we enforce safety, so noobs don't go nuts with their 40000000000000 hp super powerful rocketships.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by from that other thread &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i undersstand what u are saying but i'm trying to show my mom that autox is pretty safe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

there is the problem right there. the OP wanted to show autocross is safe by having people post the worse chit that happens. a better way would have been to ask what types of safety precautions are put in place at autocross events. a thread that focuses only on the bad casts an unduely harsh light on autocrossing and can influence lot owners decision on renting a site. "i read on the internet that cars flip and crash into course workers. i don't want that!" is what you'd get. a thread on all the safety measures taken would be more constructive.

locking the thread might look bad, but reduces the chances of site owners finding out about stuff that happens more as a fluke then anything else and getting the impression it happens all the time. of the thousands of autocrosses held every weekend across the country you might see one or two instances of something going wrong a year. concentrating those instances into one thread gives the illusion it happens way more often then that.

nate

 

I agree, it would be bad for someone who rents a site to see a locked thread like that. However, it would be worse to see 89 replies about people running into light posts and running over little puppies.

Our region scrambles to find sites to put together a schedule every year. At this moment, the location of 2 of our final 3 events are listed as TBA. Our neighboring region hasn't hosted an autocross event in a year and a half due to a lack of a site.

I see nothing good coming out of second or third or fourth hand discussion of accidents available for all to see.

 

I've killed cones... I feel horrible. Those cones never stood a chance.

 

Please don't make this thread a continuation of the other. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but please don't make it look like I was trying to weasily circumvent the thread lock.

edit: this post is intended to be preventative, not necessarily in direct response to anyone's comments..

 

Do you really think there would be 89 posts about people hitting light poles on this forum?!? Is it _that_ common?

The fact that you're afraid that that many people will have that many stories is scarier to me than any accumulation of "Something bad happened at autocross today" threads I've ever read.

Wow... Have I been that sheltered in the autocrossing I've done/attended? Hmm.. Well, that makes me a lot more hesitant to inquire about using the lot near where I work.

 

If you want to be entertained by crashes and damaged property you might want to check out the NASCAR forums. http://www.nascar.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MechE00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you really think there would be 89 posts about people hitting light poles on this forum?!? Is it _that_ common?

The fact that you're afraid that that many people will have that many stories is scarier to me than any accumulation of "Something bad happened at autocross today" threads I've ever read.

Wow... Have I been that sheltered in the autocrossing I've done/attended? Hmm.. Well, that makes me a lot more hesitant to inquire about using the lot near where I work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good grief.

No. I've been around for probably ten thousand plus autocross runs and I've only seen one incident and that only resulted in minor cosmetic damage.

 

Autocrossing is by far the most safe timed racing event their is, nothing else really needs to be said, yes mistakes are made and 95% of the time it is driver error that results in mis-happs, as stated above it is by for the most safe timed event, we don't need a thread talking about those rare

 

That's not my interest here, Littleton..

In my experience, a good safety culture is an open safety culture. If the safety culture for autocross is becoming secretive, it means it's rotting, to me. RJ left open and even posted in the "Your First Crash?" HPDE thread, https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=2

In that other thread, someone suggested to narrow it to just incidents people have personally had (and the original poster agreed to it) to avoid the voyeuristic "pictures of other people's crashes" destiny the thread might have found, that seems much more acceptable to me than locking the thread.. to me.

I think people having a good idea of what they're getting into is a GREAT thing. One person saying, "Meh! SHHH!!!! It's noooo problem! There's a certain level of risk, accept that." doesn't provide that information.

&lt;hyperbole&gt; You could be technically accurate saying there's "a certain level of risk" from jumping out of an airborne airplane without a parachute, too-- but I wouldn't say the levels of risk are comparable to the risks in autocross. &lt;/hyperbole&gt;

Honestly, I think 25 different people saying something like, "In my N years autocrossing, I've seen X, Y, and Z happen, but they happened because of old and faulty equipment, driver "Red Mist", etc., and all the autocrosses I've been to take safety very seriously. I've seen many more and worse injuries at the soccer games I've attended/participated in during that time span." is a hell of a lot more valuable and REASSURING (to the person seeking information) than one person skittishly locking a thread effectively saying, "fuggidaboudit.."

ah well.. don't worry about me. My ideals aren't in fashion these days, and my communication skills are too weak to do anything about it. Besides, I've got other things that need doing.

I'm just one of those people that feels the cover-up is nearly always worse than the crime.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MechE00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's not my interest here, Littleton..

In my experience, a good safety culture is an open safety culture. If the safety culture for autocross is becoming secretive, it means it's rotting, to me. RJ left open and even posted in the "Your First Crash?" HPDE thread, https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=2

In that other thread, someone suggested to narrow it to just incidents people have personally had (and the original poster agreed to it) to avoid the voyeuristic "pictures of other people's crashes" destiny the thread might have found, that seems much more acceptable to me than locking the thread.. to me.

I think people having a good idea of what they're getting into is a GREAT thing. One person saying, "Meh! SHHH!!!! It's noooo problem! There's a certain level of risk, accept that." doesn't provide that information.

&lt;hyperbole&gt; You could be technically accurate saying there's "a certain level of risk" from jumping out of an airborne airplane without a parachute, too-- but I wouldn't say the levels of risk are comparable to the risks in autocross. &lt;/hyperbole&gt;

Honestly, I think 25 different people saying something like, "In my N years autocrossing, I've seen X, Y, and Z happen, but they happened because of old and faulty equipment, driver "Red Mist", etc., and all the autocrosses I've been to take safety very seriously. I've seen many more and worse injuries at the soccer games I've attended/participated in during that time span." is a hell of a lot more valuable and REASSURING (to the person seeking information) than one person skittishly locking a thread effectively saying, "fuggidaboudit.."

ah well.. don't worry about me. My ideals aren't in fashion these days, and my communication skills are too weak to do anything about it. Besides, I've got other things that need doing.

I'm just one of those people that feels the cover-up is nearly always worse than the crime.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I still disagree that RJ was attempting to cover any issue up. Autocross has levels of risk. Most of the risk comes from inexperienced drivers and the make up of the course. I disagree in your comparision between the "My first crash" thread and the autocross accident thread. The objectivity of the "My first crash" thread was to be read as situational experiences of what went wrong. Either driver conflicts of the disconnect between the brain and the foot or something mechanical.

The Autocross thread was about what crash occured. A rubber necking thread of top autocross crashes and incidents of damage.

-v/r,

Larry Littleton

 

I hate whining about locked threads...

Calling the other thread a "safety thread" is a joke. That's like calling Worlds Scariest Police Chases news. If you really wanted to get a feel for the safety of autocross you be asking about the frequency of accidents, not just the seriousness.

 

If you really want your mom to see that autocross is safe, then take her to see one with you. After she sees that it's just cones in a parking lot, she'll think it's safe

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by luder94si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you really want your mom to see that autocross is safe, then take her to see one with you. After she sees that it's just cones in a parking lot, she'll think it's safe </TD></TR></TABLE>

good point


RJ left open and even posted in the "Your First Crash?" i don't get why this thread would not be doing the same thing as my thread.

 

I STILL find it hilarious that my fiancee thinks autoxing is dangerous, but HPDEs aren't...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I STILL find it hilarious that my fiancee thinks autoxing is dangerous, but HPDEs aren't...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Now THAT is unexplainable... what does she think is worse about auto-x?!

Regardless of the worst thing that’s happened in several people’s years of experience, I still don’t think autocross is as dangerous as just driving on the street, and that’s what’s important. At the events I go to there are 150-200 entrants in a given day. I’ve been to 20 events and never personally been witness to any collision or mishap, the worst thing that’s happened is some Saab overheated and that’s about it. Now sorry if I get a little to analytical/hypothetical, but 150 cars X 20 events = 3,000 cars racing for one day. What are the odds of getting in an accident in 3,000 days’ worth of driving on the street – or over 8 years driving every single day? Probably pretty high.

These numbers aren’t exactly scientific, but the point is that autocross is very likely no more dangerous than driving out on the street. Just the fact that it’s “racing” freaks out insurers and lot lenders, which is understandable… they just need to witness an event and learn more about it. Also worth mentioning that in all the “worst things” that people listed in the other thread, nobody got hurt. Even if you did hit something it auto-x, the speeds will be relatively low, whereas people are dying out there on the highways. I’m confident I could autocross every day for the rest of my life and not die doing it – I can’t say the same about a daily commute. Plus what would people do without autocross? You’d get many – perhaps the majority – of those 150-200 racers driving more aggressively on the streets, endangering themselves and others much more. People like us need their fast driving fix, and if they can’t get it through autocross and can’t afford trackdays (I know I can’t), like it or not many of them are going to take it out onto the street.

 

Littleton: I personally interpretted it as a "So crashes, how long does it take to happen, what causes them, and how bad are they? In general?" It read like someone who had some HPDE experience, but not a lot, who wanted more information on what to expect since he felt it time to reevaluate his own concept of how safe HPDE was.

I saw the autocross incident thread in a very similar light.

Others, including JeffS: I can see that if you felt it was a Fox Special "World Most Extreme Car Crash" thread, your attitude makes more sense. I guess I didn't see it turning that way, and I had no expectation of it turning that way in this forum. I haven't been reading this forum as much recently as I used to, so maybe I've missed evidence of its decline... (or maybe I always had too much respect for the forum membership).

Ah well.. time to eat my lunch.. cheers all! Hope your lunch is as good as mine!

 

Scariest thing I've seen from an autocross:

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by White98LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now THAT is unexplainable... what does she think is worse about auto-x?!</TD></TR></TABLE>

No idea, I've talked to her about it like 10 times, and she never came up with anything worthwhile. If it keeps her off my back for track days though, whatever, as that's more my thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B. Falfa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scariest thing I've seen from an autocross:



</TD></TR></TABLE>


Owwww....my eyes!!!!!

Warn us before you post that **** please...

 

I think the intent of the Original Poster should have been part of his original post. The thread probably wouldn't have turned into what it did. Not to mention, the "1st Crash" post was probably covering autocross incidents, too. There just aren't as many.

I think if George34 had asked, "My mom thinks autocrossing is dangerous. What can I do to convince her it isn't?" He would have gotten a better response more conducive to his cause:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by luder94si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you really want your mom to see that autocross is safe, then take her to see one with you. After she sees that it's just cones in a parking lot, she'll think it's safe </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B. Falfa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scariest thing I've seen from an autocross:



</TD></TR></TABLE>

&lt;Christine Taylor voice&gt; I just threw up a little in my mouth. &lt;end Christine Taylor voice&gt;

 

that guys messed up lookin.

 

Autox is safer than being on the public road.

(not street racing just driving)

&lt;~$0.02